Need advice, thinking about jumping into SCCA this year!
02-28-2012, 09:39 PM
#23
Racer
I went through this same decision process more than a few times and ended up going with NASA and any buying an ST2 knowing my car would not have a proper home in SCCA.*
*
If I lived in California, I would be racing SCCA T1 with Oli and his crew.
*
For me, it's not about track touring and more about having someone to run with and dice with.* I also like that I get at least two races at every NASA weekend, compared to 1 at SCCA National events.
*
Unless you have a GT1 Corvette, you are not going to find a class with SCCA that is heavily populated in the Midwest.* The June Sprints is a big CENDIV race and was the high water mark for T1, which had 4 cars - that were all over the place on lap times.* STO also had 4 cars.
*
4 cars was the smallest turn out we had with NASA in 2011 in ST2
April Autobahn - 7
Putnam -4
Gingerman - 5
July Autobahn - 8
July Mid-Ohio 10
aug- Mid-ohio 15!
If you want to race and not time trial in a Corvette, NASA is a no brainer.*
*
If I lived in California, I would be racing SCCA T1 with Oli and his crew.
*
For me, it's not about track touring and more about having someone to run with and dice with.* I also like that I get at least two races at every NASA weekend, compared to 1 at SCCA National events.
*
Unless you have a GT1 Corvette, you are not going to find a class with SCCA that is heavily populated in the Midwest.* The June Sprints is a big CENDIV race and was the high water mark for T1, which had 4 cars - that were all over the place on lap times.* STO also had 4 cars.
*
4 cars was the smallest turn out we had with NASA in 2011 in ST2
April Autobahn - 7
Putnam -4
Gingerman - 5
July Autobahn - 8
July Mid-Ohio 10
aug- Mid-ohio 15!
If you want to race and not time trial in a Corvette, NASA is a no brainer.*
02-28-2012, 10:26 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
You will want to add brakes, some coilovers and get out as much weight as you can. ST2 (ST1 too) cars come at all levels or prep.
Our first event is coming up in less than 60 days, you should take a little road trip to lovely Joliet, IL. I wouldn't pass up Short-Throw's offer to show you around - it will certainly make your trip worth while.
02-28-2012, 10:49 PM
#25
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2000
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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02-29-2012, 12:44 AM
#26
Le Mans Master
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...edFebruary.pdf
Section 9.1.10.3.a on page GCR - 682 of the GCR:
Only those cars listed each year are eligible to compete. Additions and/or deletions of automobiles
shall be at the discretion of the SCCA.
Cars more than 5 model years old will not be classified.
shall be at the discretion of the SCCA.
Cars more than 5 model years old will not be classified.
You can't get a car model that is already more than five years old approved for racing, but if it is currently approved you can build new ones and/or keep racing what you have for an indefinite period of time at this point in time. The SCCA seems to be very fond of the C5 so I am not expecting to see it go anytime in the foreseeable future. It is the backbone of the class.
Last edited by Olitho; 02-29-2012 at 12:47 AM.
02-29-2012, 10:16 AM
#27
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
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The TTS/ST2 cars seem to transition better between time trial and wheel to wheel.
In the Midwest/Great Lakes regions TTA has had good car counts but PTA has not. There are a couple of guys who ran TTA last year that are planning on running PTA this year but at most of the regional events they will probably end up bumping into ST2 for the car counts. For Nationals they will run PTA though.
02-29-2012, 10:53 AM
#28
Safety Car
ST2 used to be a Corvette dominated class but lately there is much more variety. Last year there were podium finishes by lots of C5 Z06's, a C6, Misubishi EVO's, a Lotus Exige, and a few others.
PTA is a good 'vette class but as Joel (96collector) mentioned the car counts are down. However, that may change in the near future as ST2 is becoming a very expensive class to win. It's not just a bunch of C5Z's with sway bars anymore, the top guys have cars that are only Corvettes in appearance.
However, I don't think the PT classes will ever really get popular as the rules are just too complex and restrictive. A simple power to weight rule (as in ST) makes things a lot simpler and allows you to play with everything on the car to see what works, brakes, suspension, aero, etc.
I personally bounce between PTA and ST2 based on car counts. Usually there aren't many PTA cars to race...
PTA is a good 'vette class but as Joel (96collector) mentioned the car counts are down. However, that may change in the near future as ST2 is becoming a very expensive class to win. It's not just a bunch of C5Z's with sway bars anymore, the top guys have cars that are only Corvettes in appearance.
However, I don't think the PT classes will ever really get popular as the rules are just too complex and restrictive. A simple power to weight rule (as in ST) makes things a lot simpler and allows you to play with everything on the car to see what works, brakes, suspension, aero, etc.
I personally bounce between PTA and ST2 based on car counts. Usually there aren't many PTA cars to race...
02-29-2012, 01:21 PM
#29
Racer
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...edFebruary.pdf
Section 9.1.10.3.a on page GCR - 682 of the GCR:
Section 9.1.10.3.a on page GCR - 682 of the GCR:
Only those cars listed each year are eligible to compete. Additions and/or deletions of automobiles
shall be at the discretion of the SCCA.
Cars more than 5 model years old will not be classified.
shall be at the discretion of the SCCA.
Cars more than 5 model years old will not be classified.
You can't get a car model that is already more than five years old approved for racing, but if it is currently approved you can build new ones and/or keep racing what you have for an indefinite period of time at this point in time. The SCCA seems to be very fond of the C5 so I am not expecting to see it go anytime in the foreseeable future. It is the backbone of the class.
02-29-2012, 01:34 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
Rules seems vague, scca leaves the door open to eliminate c5 or any dated touring car at any time. C5 is eligible this year, but who knows about the future. If scca was smart they would allow the c5 to continue to run in T1 for several years, otherwise there will be some very unhappy racers...
That is what the CRB has said. The C5 has a long future in T1... as in indefinitely at this point. The commitment to the C5 is clear if you read the notes and comments from the CRB/Board of Governors.
02-29-2012, 03:20 PM
#31
Instructor
This may be a dumb question (SCCA T1), but in section 9.1.10 b. Air Conditioners: 1. states:
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
02-29-2012, 05:33 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
This may be a dumb question (SCCA T1), but in section 9.1.10 b. Air Conditioners: 1. states:
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
Oli
02-29-2012, 05:40 PM
#33
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2000
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 1,848
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Rules seems vague, scca leaves the door open to eliminate c5 or any dated touring car at any time. C5 is eligible this year, but who knows about the future. If scca was smart they would allow the c5 to continue to run in T1 for several years, otherwise there will be some very unhappy racers...
02-29-2012, 06:04 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
This may be a dumb question (SCCA T1), but in section 9.1.10 b. Air Conditioners: 1. states:
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
The factory and/or aftermarket air conditioning system
may be removed, provided that at least the following items
associated with the system are also removed: compressor,
condenser, H.D. springs/sway bars, H.D. shocks, larger
tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans.All duct work, wiring, Freon lines, valves, evaporators,
dryers, and dash controls may remain. If the air conditioning
compressor is an integral part of the drive system,
the compressor may be retained and disabled or replaced
with an idler pulley that serves no other purpose.
So if you remove your AC system then you have to remove H.D. springs/sway bars, HD shocks, larger tires, engine and transmission coolers and cooling fans?
Is that a typo?
02-29-2012, 06:06 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
02-29-2012, 06:43 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Matt would be a great addition. I have been bugging him for a couple of years....
02-29-2012, 06:45 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
I was curious about that too. I was told basically it does not apply to T1 corvettes and just ignore it. It was intended for cars that had upgraded suspension components associated with the AC system. I don't know of any cars that meet that condition personally. The T1 suspension has nothing to do with the AC system and neither does the radiator or anything else for that matter.
I think you pretty much nailed it. If for example you are racing a Cobalt and the one shipped with A/C comes with heavier springs and the one without does not, then you can only run the car in one whole config or another depending upon how they come from the factory. But again I recommend talking to a builder to confirm.
That is the "class philosophy" of Touring.
Oli
