Stan's Customs

Many thanks Ken...the pics are on the way. I should have the rest of them and the cost for the set up in a couple of days.


Best regards...Stan

kenmo

No problem Stan...my pleasure....

McGyver IFS photos from Stan

kenmo

kenmo

kenmo

I wonder if any welding is required....

Plasticman

Ken,

It would appear that welding is required at the aft end of the crossmember (to the frame), and probably at the shock/spring tower to side frame areas as well. There are only 4 bolt locations per frame horn that support this crossmember (there are 8 per frame horn on the stock removed original crosssmember). I see fillet welds in both areas (one vertical down the side, and one horizontal on the frame bottom surface).

Only the Meyer and Martz units utilize all 16 existing frame / crossmember mounting holes (well actually 14 in the case of the Martz).

Plasticman

wmf62

their installed picture shows it completely welded in and with new welded-in motor mount brackets. the original motor mounts MIGHT fit

the crossmember picture shows only 4 bolts holes in each pad and from the geometry of the pads and spring towers, i would think it would be prudent/mandatory to run fillet welds up along each side and across the frame/springtower interface and the back edge of the pad.

interestingly, they are not using coil-over shocks, but coil type adjustable shocks, which i see to be a plus (wish i had them...)
Bill

Stan's Customs

I only have a minute...

They say the one pictured was welded in due to customer preference..

The unit is supposed to be a total bolt in..


Coil springs and gas shocks can be used with a lower a-arm "plate" (bolt in) change...or air bags ...or...any time after the installation...

I'll have the rest of the information soon I hope including price...

Gotta go...STan

wmf62

nope; i absolutely, positively would not just bolt it in...

my preference, i guess..
Bill

Plasticman

Really a prescription for disaster! Similar to a particular mod's efforts lately.

Plasticman

Stan's Customs

Really a prescription for disaster! Similar to a particular mod's efforts lately.

Plasticman[/QUOTE]


Guess I missed on that one ...

What happened to a moderator...

I think welding it in would be best too....this one looks like it might be the best of both worlds...Bolt it in, hopefully the bolt holes would be dead on (that would be first wouldn't it) ....if they were dead on, getting it aligned before welding would be a lot easier than clamps etc.

Then you might even make spacers if you wanted to raise the front....unbolt it add the spacer or any other modifications thaty might be needed...then bolt it back in place and burn it in when you've everything the way you want it....while the bolts hold it nice and steady.

.....or unbolt it and an run an add on e-bay...Heh, heh.
\
The lower control arm interchangeable mounting plate is interesting...allows for several spring options. I believe a longer coil spring with a low spring rate yields the best ride without diminishing body height.

The behive spring that pockets on the crossmember top hat and bottoms on the adjustable shock looks like a pretty nifty idea too. Wouldn't that be better than having all the spring pressure concentrated on the shock bolts themselves (upper and lower)?...for obtaining a quality ride that is? And then there is the plate for air bags...

I don't care for the square corners on the front radiator support...maybe getting one from Morrisons would be a good idea with this one too..

Well back to work...

Later ...Stan

wmf62

no matter whose frontend you get, NEVER assume that just because the bolts all fit that the frontend is square with the rearend and that the wheel base on both sides match.

ALWAYS make sure the wheelbases match on one side with the other before locking the new suspension in its finally position.

ALWAYS

Bill

jrm5657

The Martz suspension still looks to be the cleanest installation, obviously if the bolt holes line up!!! I am getting ready to take my frame to be dipped in the next month or so, then I will be ready to make my final choice. I still think I may trailer my frame to Martz and fit it at their shop, that way any fit up problems are their problems.....I am still interested in knowing for sure if inner fenders need to be trimmed.
Keep this thread going with updates...

wmf62

i see no way that the inner fender panels can avoid being cut; look at the picture below from their pictures of their installation:



Bill

Stan's Customs

For sure Bill...

Holes being dead on...also is in reference to their location.

I guess what appeals to me about this crossmember...is that if it does fit and can be bolted in quickly ...then all other aspects of the installation can commence...immediately. Particularly height and wheelbase adjustments if needed. A big labor saver it would seem to me...

The only reason I have considered a bolt/weld IFS "again" was the TCI system which uses Coil springs... I looked at the Meyer IFS early on, but decided against it, because I've never had good luck with coil over shocks. When I saw the TCI set up I really began to rethink my plans of a complete frame replacement (just to get coil springs).

I liked the idea of the one piece Meyer way back... (once again except for the shocks...) in fact I could have bought a take out frame with the Meyer set up for $2000 from Corvette Correction a couple of yeaqrs ago...but had decided against it in favor of Billy's superb C4 set up. The loss of the old school wheels has me still stalling on that. I know all the good things it would accompolish...but it just isn't an example of the many hot rods I'm known for, and I'm having a hard time building it for "Me".. If that makes a lick of sense...


I liked the TCI because of the cost...even decided the extra labor would be OK since it was so affordable. but the problems with that install you guys had, kept me looking further. (Hat's off to TCI for their quick responses to any problems you encountered..They sure know what customer service is about).

Never the less...the suspension is just the tip of the iceberg on my project, and I decided against the TCI because of the fabrication trial and error I might face. Not a big thing if that was all I had to do on this project...

...and of course the one piece Martz...has it's problems, but not many..... but still no coil springs. The latter could perhaps be changed without reengineering the whole thing...but I thought I'd look around a little more still.

Seems like they all have their pitfalls.....

One other thing or two I liked about Macgyver one piece kit (besides coil springs) is the boxed crossmember....personal preference I reckon.

...and they are a "working shop" that has installed at least one kit, with pics to prove it. SOooo maybe, just maybe... the holes and dimensions would actually be on the money!! Heh heh (just maybe..!)

Any of these kits can be made to work equally well...and at least now, thanks to those blazing the trail by installing the different ones... which ever one a person chooses, he will have a good idea of what he's up against "before" he buys.

Since I'm building a house and relocating my elderly mother (so we can keep an eye on her)....I have the luxury of following along closely on what you guys have found out the hard way. Money and labor ...generally brings the cream to the top eventually!

Maybe by this winter, it will be clear...thru everyone's trial and error...what pitfalls each system has...

I never have done anything the first time that I wouldn't change something if did it again..sometimes even after 3 or 4 times. Things just improve with each installation. So here we are...please keep the comments comming.....it can only save the rest of us a lot of trial and error...AND...$$$$$!

Thanks again....Stan

wmf62

my 'gut feeling' at this point is that with a 4-turns rack it might not be necessary to have power steering as i think the front end is lightened considerably.

it will be interesting to hear how someone feels that has gone that route.
Bill

Stan's Customs

"might not" be necessary...what do you think would be best (an educated guess I know)..

Stan...

wmf62

the beauty of the R&P steering systems is that the racks are virtually interchangeable (within the same family..), so it would not be a great deal of rework to change over to power steering if the manual rack turns out to be too 'hard'...

BUT, if you go with the manual rack and the original front motor mount system (and given the choice, i don't know why anyone would want to continue using that system that died with the dinosaurs.. ); then it will be a challenge to add a power steering pump unless you use one of the small pumps that tuck down low and have a remote reservoir, or use a remotely mounted electric power steering pump.

so, a lot depends on your choice of motor mounts... if you use new side mount motor mounts, then it would be worthwhile to try the manual rack first; not much money wasted if it turns out to not suit your needs....
Bill

Stan's Customs

I miss read the post again...you think a manual rack might be good if it was a 4 turn...

You know one of the guys at Fat man (I think) said the same thing. In fact recommended the manual rack..on nearly all light hot rods. Said that was very good at all but a dead stop ...

I gather you have come to the conclusion that even with the pressure reduced on a 3 1/4 turn or so power rack, that it is still too sensitive (takes getting used too).

I believe they also said lane drift or dart is non existant with a manual rack....

Talk about simple plumbing...it doesn't get much simplier than that...!

Stan..

TEP061

My stock seems to drive fine.