Power brake conversion
02-23-2011, 03:35 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Power brake conversion
I've spent an hour and a half between the search function, the C1/C2 FAQ, and threads that I have saved, and I can't seem to find what I need. I'm looking for a detailed explanation on putting a power brake booster in my 65 non power brake car. Mainly the studs, bracket, and pushjrod length. I bought a generic booster and dual master cylinder. Has anyone done this recently and do you have a good write up? Thanks!
02-23-2011, 04:01 PM
#3
Instructor
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: Southern Pines nc
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P/B Conversion
I'm not sure about aftermarket stuff, but I just did this conversion with original parts on my 66 and it was quite easy. Order the nut plate for the booster, bolt it in place and drill the holes in the firewall for the two rivets if you are going to use them (not necessary if originality is not a concern) and the P/B light switch adapter that makes contact between the switch and the pedal. And of course you will need what ever brake lines are going to match up to your master cylinder.
There is really nut much else going on here except knocking out two of the studs from the old mounting. I don't remember which but you will see if you hold your booster up to the firewall, if you need me to, I can go out to the shop and check for you later on tonight.
Pete
There is really nut much else going on here except knocking out two of the studs from the old mounting. I don't remember which but you will see if you hold your booster up to the firewall, if you need me to, I can go out to the shop and check for you later on tonight.
Pete
02-23-2011, 04:38 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
PostalPete,
I would appreciate any info you could provide. Maybe looking at your set-up would tweak your memory. Did you take any pictures?
Steve
I would appreciate any info you could provide. Maybe looking at your set-up would tweak your memory. Did you take any pictures?
Steve
02-23-2011, 04:48 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Found this on the other forum:
I have done quite a few of these power brake add ons, on 67 you will need to remove the forward frame brake line retaining clip for the rear brake line in order to "stretch" it as adding the booster repositions the master cylinder forward farther than the line will permit without removing the clamp.
To be a "cleaner" install the forward M/C line should also be changed, for the same reason. You will also need the add on brake light switch actuator to mount to the pedal. Be certain to readjust the booster to pedal rod length (this is important) to ensure correct free pedal travel and pedal height. Since originallity is not a concern you do not need to remove the pedal return spring that was not installed on factory optioned cars, it will mean nothing in your case and will not change the return feel or action. Also, as previously mentioned when installing the upper booster mount you will be required to drill two holes through the firewall (after removing the LH wiper grill). You will also be required to "knock out" the two original firewall mounting bolts for the non power M/C, just give them a sharp hit with a hammer and they will pop right back onto the floor, the booster uses studs that will just pass right through the now empty hole and use nuts and lw on the inside.
Be sure you have booster in hand and use it as a template to locate EXACTLY were to drill the clearance holes in the firewall to mount into the bracket, you do not need to install the rivets supplied to hold the bracket in place since you are not concerned about duplicating factory, its much easier without them.
Lastly, there are at least 3 maybe 4 repo versions of the booster out there on the market, there are more versions involved with the mounting of the brackets via rivets as original or studs and nuts, in you case either will be fine. I can say I have used some of the units advertised around $100 without any problems, some early versions had issues but have been corrected. In any event its a very competitive price war and I would be surprised if they were all fom a different manufacturer although they are for sure imported.
Be VERY cautious of buying a new Master Cylinder. There are a few versions out there I would be very hesitant to use, especially the units with line outlets on both sides of the master, appears to be some type of attempt at making it Generic. The market is currently flooded with these and I know the booster/master units being peddled for under $100 are as such.
There are very good units available from major houses for well under $100 wholesale, including the one repo geared at duplicating the original. If you need some references e-mail me.
Needless to say you could always use original parts, but at much more expense. Also keep in mind none of the repo boosters are serviceable or rebuildable as the parts internal are not the same as original so they should be considered throw aways if failing after any time warranty has expired. Not rebuildable. Good luck, you will like your conversion!
FYI, I also have put this set-up on lots of 65-66 cars and just again match line sizes and lines appropriately and now besides having power they have the added safety feature of a dual system.
I have done quite a few of these power brake add ons, on 67 you will need to remove the forward frame brake line retaining clip for the rear brake line in order to "stretch" it as adding the booster repositions the master cylinder forward farther than the line will permit without removing the clamp.
To be a "cleaner" install the forward M/C line should also be changed, for the same reason. You will also need the add on brake light switch actuator to mount to the pedal. Be certain to readjust the booster to pedal rod length (this is important) to ensure correct free pedal travel and pedal height. Since originallity is not a concern you do not need to remove the pedal return spring that was not installed on factory optioned cars, it will mean nothing in your case and will not change the return feel or action. Also, as previously mentioned when installing the upper booster mount you will be required to drill two holes through the firewall (after removing the LH wiper grill). You will also be required to "knock out" the two original firewall mounting bolts for the non power M/C, just give them a sharp hit with a hammer and they will pop right back onto the floor, the booster uses studs that will just pass right through the now empty hole and use nuts and lw on the inside.
Be sure you have booster in hand and use it as a template to locate EXACTLY were to drill the clearance holes in the firewall to mount into the bracket, you do not need to install the rivets supplied to hold the bracket in place since you are not concerned about duplicating factory, its much easier without them.
Lastly, there are at least 3 maybe 4 repo versions of the booster out there on the market, there are more versions involved with the mounting of the brackets via rivets as original or studs and nuts, in you case either will be fine. I can say I have used some of the units advertised around $100 without any problems, some early versions had issues but have been corrected. In any event its a very competitive price war and I would be surprised if they were all fom a different manufacturer although they are for sure imported.
Be VERY cautious of buying a new Master Cylinder. There are a few versions out there I would be very hesitant to use, especially the units with line outlets on both sides of the master, appears to be some type of attempt at making it Generic. The market is currently flooded with these and I know the booster/master units being peddled for under $100 are as such.
There are very good units available from major houses for well under $100 wholesale, including the one repo geared at duplicating the original. If you need some references e-mail me.
Needless to say you could always use original parts, but at much more expense. Also keep in mind none of the repo boosters are serviceable or rebuildable as the parts internal are not the same as original so they should be considered throw aways if failing after any time warranty has expired. Not rebuildable. Good luck, you will like your conversion!
FYI, I also have put this set-up on lots of 65-66 cars and just again match line sizes and lines appropriately and now besides having power they have the added safety feature of a dual system.
02-24-2011, 01:13 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hi Steven:
Here is a little info with a few pictures when I installed my power brakes a few years ago. It is very easily done in a few hours. Click ==> Here
Roy
Here is a little info with a few pictures when I installed my power brakes a few years ago. It is very easily done in a few hours. Click ==> Here
Roy
Steve
02-24-2011, 01:27 PM
#9
Team Owner
What i did on my rod/clevis adjustment was....Put brake pedal all the way UP..then adjust rod/clevis...remember the rod/clevis goes in the bottom hole of pedal arm for the adjustment.
jack
02-24-2011, 01:47 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
02-24-2011, 03:23 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
02-25-2011, 12:49 AM
#13
Intermediate
Last month I changed over to power brakes on my '65. The worst part was changing the rear brake line to the new proper size. That alone took a week of off and on fooling around. The hood is still off my car and the booster unit and dual master is bolted up and in place and it looks like it will fit when the hood is closed, but it's going to be a tight. It appears that it will fit up in the hood recess and allow the hood to shut.
Somebody here at a local show told me that factory installed power brake cars have a different firewall, with a kind of depression that the booster mounts into, decreasing the angle that it juts up toward the hood. Is that true?
Mike
Somebody here at a local show told me that factory installed power brake cars have a different firewall, with a kind of depression that the booster mounts into, decreasing the angle that it juts up toward the hood. Is that true?
Mike
02-25-2011, 07:56 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Last month I changed over to power brakes on my '65. The worst part was changing the rear brake line to the new proper size. That alone took a week of off and on fooling around. The hood is still off my car and the booster unit and dual master is bolted up and in place and it looks like it will fit when the hood is closed, but it's going to be a tight. It appears that it will fit up in the hood recess and allow the hood to shut.
Somebody here at a local show told me that factory installed power brake cars have a different firewall, with a kind of depression that the booster mounts into, decreasing the angle that it juts up toward the hood. Is that true?
Mike
Somebody here at a local show told me that factory installed power brake cars have a different firewall, with a kind of depression that the booster mounts into, decreasing the angle that it juts up toward the hood. Is that true?
Mike
02-25-2011, 12:55 PM
#15
Intermediate
Hi,
I ran a 3/16" brake line to the rear. The original brake line is a bit smaller in diameter, and the fittings won't match up with the new master, as the ports are not the same size. I assume, for some reason, that power brakes need or use a larger volume of fluid to the rear calipers.
I bought everything as a "power brake conversion kit", it worked out to about $100 less than buying all the parts individually.
I see that my hood is notched, and the instructions say the hood will shut, but man, it must be tight in there with the hood closed. If it rubs, I was told to use a couple of thick washers on the upper power booster bolts and cut down on the angle up to the hood. The instructions are very clear that this new master won't clear a 1963 hood.
As far as installing the new front/rear line...all I can say is "good luck"
I did not want to lift the body off the chassis. The old line will come out if you remove the driver's side rocker panel molding. Leaving this line in place will cause rattles down the road. You need several long and very thin flat head screwdrivers to either remove the clips from the top of the frame, or push the old line out of the clips. Since you are going to waste the old line, cut it at the rear chassis kick up, and then pull each part out. I did this with the car on jack stands. Remove the driver's side rear wheel for easier access. Now comes the fun. If you want the line on top of the chassis like factory, you have to lift off the body or raise it up enough to work it into place. If you leave the body on the frame, you can attach the new line to the upper inside frame rail. Don't bother trying to get the line on top of the frame with the body in place, it's an impossibility. Even if you did push it up there, you could never insert the clips and then drive them down into the frame. Also, don't install it the easy way, to the bottom of the frame (too great a chance of damaging it and somehow weakening it or piercing it, or more likely, one day you forgetting it's there, and putting a jack under the frame and then mashing the line flat). Here comes the worst part of this entire job: getting the new line from under the car, past the underside of the rear of the body, and up where the frame kicks up. After 2 weeks of coming home from work, messing with this line, and going nowhere, I finally pulled up part of the carpet (the driver seat was already out) and used a moto tool and cut a small 3"x4" access hole in the body rear floor area just in front of the frame horn, where I could then use a thin screwdriver to push the line up into place, while pulling on the rear of it with the other hand. This hole I cut allowed me to see what had been hidden by the body, which is the point where the line fishes out from inside the frame rail, and the top of the beginning of the frame kick up. Keep pulling the rear of the line, use some silicon spay on it, and eventually it will move into position. Do not repeatedly wiggle the brake line, you may cause stress fractures in the line which can open up one day and leak. Two people would have made this task easier. Once the line was now in position, the access patch section was put back in place, and the whole thing was fiberglassed in. I had bought some undercoating to do the bottom of the patch with, but the moto tool makes such a fine cut, I could not even see where the access patch had been cut out, so I just hit it with a blast of chassis black paint.
You will need to order some 1967 brake line clips for this job. Use an angle head drill, or rent one, and once you have your line in place, mark with chalk where you want to drill in the frame to mount your clips (I used stainless steel self tapping course metal screws, as stainless will never rust in place should I ever in the future want to remove the screws and clips. Now put the clips on the line and screw them into position. Attach the rear junction block and the rear lines (might as well change all those old rubber flex brake lines, now is the time), and attach the front of the new brake line to the brake line distribution block near the master. Tap the line a few times and listen for any rattles, if so, use another clip. Trust me, if you can do this job, then you can easily install power steering or even A/C.
Everything except the rear line on this power brake kit is easy. It's this line that's the effort.
Nobody will include instructions in the power brake conversion kit, but this is online:
http://www.ecklers.com/assets/pdf/corvette/51673.pdf
hope this helps,
Mike
I ran a 3/16" brake line to the rear. The original brake line is a bit smaller in diameter, and the fittings won't match up with the new master, as the ports are not the same size. I assume, for some reason, that power brakes need or use a larger volume of fluid to the rear calipers.
I bought everything as a "power brake conversion kit", it worked out to about $100 less than buying all the parts individually.
I see that my hood is notched, and the instructions say the hood will shut, but man, it must be tight in there with the hood closed. If it rubs, I was told to use a couple of thick washers on the upper power booster bolts and cut down on the angle up to the hood. The instructions are very clear that this new master won't clear a 1963 hood.
As far as installing the new front/rear line...all I can say is "good luck"
I did not want to lift the body off the chassis. The old line will come out if you remove the driver's side rocker panel molding. Leaving this line in place will cause rattles down the road. You need several long and very thin flat head screwdrivers to either remove the clips from the top of the frame, or push the old line out of the clips. Since you are going to waste the old line, cut it at the rear chassis kick up, and then pull each part out. I did this with the car on jack stands. Remove the driver's side rear wheel for easier access. Now comes the fun. If you want the line on top of the chassis like factory, you have to lift off the body or raise it up enough to work it into place. If you leave the body on the frame, you can attach the new line to the upper inside frame rail. Don't bother trying to get the line on top of the frame with the body in place, it's an impossibility. Even if you did push it up there, you could never insert the clips and then drive them down into the frame. Also, don't install it the easy way, to the bottom of the frame (too great a chance of damaging it and somehow weakening it or piercing it, or more likely, one day you forgetting it's there, and putting a jack under the frame and then mashing the line flat). Here comes the worst part of this entire job: getting the new line from under the car, past the underside of the rear of the body, and up where the frame kicks up. After 2 weeks of coming home from work, messing with this line, and going nowhere, I finally pulled up part of the carpet (the driver seat was already out) and used a moto tool and cut a small 3"x4" access hole in the body rear floor area just in front of the frame horn, where I could then use a thin screwdriver to push the line up into place, while pulling on the rear of it with the other hand. This hole I cut allowed me to see what had been hidden by the body, which is the point where the line fishes out from inside the frame rail, and the top of the beginning of the frame kick up. Keep pulling the rear of the line, use some silicon spay on it, and eventually it will move into position. Do not repeatedly wiggle the brake line, you may cause stress fractures in the line which can open up one day and leak. Two people would have made this task easier. Once the line was now in position, the access patch section was put back in place, and the whole thing was fiberglassed in. I had bought some undercoating to do the bottom of the patch with, but the moto tool makes such a fine cut, I could not even see where the access patch had been cut out, so I just hit it with a blast of chassis black paint.
You will need to order some 1967 brake line clips for this job. Use an angle head drill, or rent one, and once you have your line in place, mark with chalk where you want to drill in the frame to mount your clips (I used stainless steel self tapping course metal screws, as stainless will never rust in place should I ever in the future want to remove the screws and clips. Now put the clips on the line and screw them into position. Attach the rear junction block and the rear lines (might as well change all those old rubber flex brake lines, now is the time), and attach the front of the new brake line to the brake line distribution block near the master. Tap the line a few times and listen for any rattles, if so, use another clip. Trust me, if you can do this job, then you can easily install power steering or even A/C.
Everything except the rear line on this power brake kit is easy. It's this line that's the effort.
Nobody will include instructions in the power brake conversion kit, but this is online:
http://www.ecklers.com/assets/pdf/corvette/51673.pdf
hope this helps,
Mike
02-25-2011, 01:44 PM
#16
Racer
http://www.stl-vettes.com/65Vette/Br...ke_Booster.htm[INDENT][ Here is a site that has a good conversion useing a 7" booster for clerance I think he is on the forum too.
