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I was looking at everything they did in building these earlier "O" Blocks (Pre-ZL-1 67/68 blocks) with the Dry/Wet Sump options. I don't remember who or where, might have been way back over 30+ years ago, maybe the Traco guys, but I have notes on particulars related to the oiling systems. Just like the oil pan was interesting, in that these were set up with two traps, front and rear. The units pan kind of pinched down in the middle for the dry sump system so acceleration oil accumulating in the rear, and under braking in the front for oil pickup. The unique dry sump 3 gear pump was a complex piece and attempt to find one of those here in the modern!!!!! But to get clearance for this unit, they actually had to machine down the Big Block crankshaft snout to a Small Block 327 crank size, etc.. The one enthusiast has one of these, block from Team Chaparral, and I have seen a few more discussed, I don't mind sharing somewhat. I generally like to trade, as I don't sell. I would like to progress my little Registry, and was hunting down 1968/69 L88 Vins, ZR-1, my research has turned up very few of those, but just never get time to advance that Registry as I would like. I am rarely over here on C3, so putting out to anyone wanting to help. I will try to get that enthusiast a copy of that manual on those engines, but it won't help with the actual building, as the information I just shared about the crank snout, special dual pickup oil pan are not in that manual.
Sorry I got cut short, as a notice popped up that Tracy Performance who tried to bait and switch me, wanted to try to embarrass me, as I was a customer who in good faith paid for a part on Ebay, received the wrong part and many can understand how that can have a domino effect on car event plans. Then I had to jump thru hoops to take pictures, measurements, as after 63 years of being around or owning Corvettes of the C2/C3 family wasn't enough for Mr. Dennis, the claimed ultimate expert. They blocked me, because I wanted my money refunded. Buyer beware! My time is more valuable than anything, we all now are seeing more consumer bullcrap, dishonesty or bad customer service. Claims of the largest inventory, but they don't house many of the products they list, instead having what you order coming from a vendor direct, they never touch, inspect, or ensure correct part, etc. I would have rather pullled that info the other member of CF is needing for rebuild/set up of a truly rare racing block, than type in response to Mr. Dennis (not a supportive vendor here, go figure (Vettepartsman)!
I will catch up later with more on the build of those Can Am blocks. A life situation, again got in the way of fun stuff, I would rather be doing!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-20-2024 at 06:29 PM.
Flashback '68 !
This car continued to evolve and they stroked it in good fashion leading to the '70 which they would have released it if it was not for the politicians. PDF file story below.
1968 , Gary Knutson of McLaren Racing at Bartz engine development Van Nuys California :
Discussion in the article goes into REVERSE ROTATION cam, distributor etc. The engine runs in reverse, shipped loosely assembled. 27563481 ? not 18436572 ;-)
This is a GM Media picture released to the press of a ZL-1, although B&W, this is not yellow, nor is it an orange convertible.
Here is an article on this car :
"This ZL1 was delivered new to a Chevrolet Dealer in Salt Lake City Utah, as shown through NCIB Bureau records; which have the original dealerships to which cars are delivered new. The first owner of this ZL1 Corvette was Jack Cheskaty. Jack is currently the US Treasury IRS Director for the Rocky Mountain District of five states." <SNIP>
"Woody Walcher & Associates Racing team. Woody has also provided a signed affadavit of this corvette as being a factory original ZL1. Kevin has a 1970 Race Program from Midway Dragstrip in Grand Junction Colorado with this Corvette under Cheskaty's name. Also has some original photos of this ZL1 on the dragstrip, with the name "Predator" on the side. "SNIP>
. . . Wild, I've seen this white car since I was a kid, its a Hot Wheels car, a Danbury mint car and I believe the inspiration for the C7 ZR-1 Hood,
and perhaps even Joel Rosen. Not sure about the legitimacy of this story.
According to K. Scott Teeters ," The five quarantined ZL-1s were eventually shipped to Chevrolet Engineering, Attn : Xora Arkus Duntov. Rumor has it that they slipped out the back door, never to be officially accounted for. The Tonowanda Engine Plant built ZL-1 engines for a short time with those engines sold through the GM Parts/Dealer Network. 1969 ZL-1 Corvettes are like ghosts ~ not hard to fake, but very hard to prove their existence.
According to Kenneth Kayser, the story goes that a batch of seven engines were installed into L88 optioned Corvettes and suprise, suprise when driven on the street, they overheated just like any other L88 because they came with a '65 big block aluminum radiator with no radiator shroud. This set up was fine for racing but terrible for street use. A production Stop Order was issued and five of the seven were put in quarantine and two cars were sent to Chrevrolet Engineering for analysis."
(Note : 7 L88 cars, engines replaced with RPO ZL-1 engines from Tonawanda. What did they do with the L88 engines from the matching VIN's ? What was the protocol ?)
The Rodgers (yellow) car was ordered originally as a company car by the Corvette plant resident engineer in St. Louis, George H. Heberling. His rationale in ordering it was that such a production vehicle would benefit from an evaluation in actual use by one of the plant's personnel. The car was ordered with all available options, resulting in a sticker price of $10,771. COPO L88 car with RPO ZL-1 on the documentation.
This goes over the above and covers cars George Haddad built. LeMans Blue and Riverside Gold ZL-1 cars in addition to a Monaco Orange one he built in 2013.
====
Kenneth W. Kayser published Corvette Legend Or Myth & Zora's Marque of Excellence . Volume I Through IV and also #58053. VOLUMES of work as the former Tonowanda Engineer since early 1968. Clearly an authority on the topic.
" The Chevrolet Engineering Product Engineering Test Laboratory was at least a once a week favorite “Hot Spot” for Ken where dynamometer operator Reed Johnson always had the latest breaking insider news as was the Company Car Garage stop for a coffee. In 1969 three additional ZL-1 engine “Hot Spots” came on line; the Aluminum Cylinder & Case machining area where the Sundstrand 5-AxisN/C Omni-mil Machining Center was located and the adjacent “cryogenic” iron bore liner insertion area. The third new “Hot Spot” was the temperature and humidity controlled “ZL-1 White Room” were just a few senior engine builders each hand assembled one ZL-1 engine at a time in personalized work stations. "
Thanks. I would love to see the article on the white T top car as this is the one I referred to in my post, but the print is so faint I can’t read it.
Thanks again.
I have been public in not liking the #58053 book. I have posted threads. A Whole lot of claims, circling the bowl, where none of the documents are shown, the Change orders, Engineering correspondence is not shared. Do I think a #58053 car existed, yes, have they presented a case the car they restored was it, not convinced, did one car have so much history, well that would be a first time, as they generally used multiple cars for different areas of testing, then they did a true running prototype. Do I like the Author, I like anyone that generally attempts to do research and shares it.
Well 7 engines ordered, 5 went into cars, two shipped for the Production. The 5 cars after testing, or in Zora's motor pool, those cars were thought to get the L88s re-installed. We are looking into this. Actually we have a number of the cars in Zora's test fleet. I just think a couple of those like the #2 Yellow 1970 LeMans car shipped still with ZL-1 and no re-install of L88.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-25-2024 at 05:07 AM.
A few years ago, GM Performance Parts was selling an all aluminum 427. It was a recreation of the original aluminum 427....I think it had a slightly lowered compression ratio. Best I remember it was $25,000, (?)
A few years ago, GM Performance Parts was selling an all aluminum 427. It was a recreation of the original aluminum 427....I think it had a slightly lowered compression ratio. Best I remember it was $25,000, (?)
So this one looks like one that was cast up after Winter's stopped doing them for GM. He Yenko was connected up with them, with GMs blessing for a limited run and with this one Yenko stamped. He later when he had his name cast in was when he was sold the molds, but asked to knock the Winters snowflake off of them. Then next, the Yenko castings got refined. So one run commissioned by Yenko, done by Winter's having snowflake cast mark, then second Yenko buying the molds and doing his own casted blocks, improving his branding with the addition of his cast in Yenko name, then logo as the last run.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-05-2024 at 01:52 AM.
This is for the "O" block guys, the backdoor Chevrolet Racing engine in the schematic draws I shared.
I have invested countless time accumulating, large lifetime expense amassing literature, records so will just share a page, as don't feel like explaining this wet sump or dry sump capable aluminum block.
I feel generous tonight! Rough week, do something good for humanity that likes cool Chevrolet stuff.
And next came the ZL-1.
I will get out that blue owners manual, share shots of the other schematics of these blocks. First don't know where I put it, as was shuffling things around.
Also someone tell the guy on Corvette Race Registry that I don't need a lesson on the Yellow Walker car,, the Orange car,, and Blue car.. I love when internet experts attempt to correct the knowledgeable people!!!
Thanks TC, I didn’t know Yenko had a separate casting.
He bought the Winter's molds and did limited runs of the aluminum blocks available for sale to sprint Car, drag racing, road racing, etc..the latter ones, adding his name, then logos cast into the old ZL-1 molds, removing the Winter's block mark snowflake. I thought I shared that above in a manner that would be understood, I will reread what I typed yesterday, because sometimes my writing just sucks.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-06-2024 at 01:27 PM.
The initial first assembled ZL-1 was completed in August 1968. That was the lost first engine. The White Room (Assembly and the Hot Test Room were only 175 feet apart, it was gone. Probably pushed into a room or exit, and someone got it out of there quick. The second one was ready September 1968. They made some changes to the machining operation and then by January and February, they were doing the block machining in batches of 25 at a time. Changing machining bits, for clean cutting, etc. Sometimes the process would turn out a flawed one, and that would go in the recycle bin. Each of these claimed starting in January 1969 with serial numbers starting at #001 were stamped with a sequential number, and then above that, with the date of completion. By the end of February one of the machinist thought they had 175 blocks done. Out of these St. Louis ordered seven of them built up into complete engines, in what would be the Corvette configuration, all 7 went into cars. These were thought to be delivered just before Fourth of July 1969. There have been ZL-1 blocks found with and pictured in the modern with 2 01 69 Serial number of 131, and 5-7-69 Serial number 349, which I have and will share pictures.
Thus two of those 7 engines arriving at St. Louis just before 7-4-1969 were sent up to Warren, MI and thought to be the two that went into the two Production cars. The cancellation of the ZL-1 Corvette happened when word came down in September 1969. This was never explained to Tonawanda, but rumors exist. The first car from CEC arrived for shake down at Tonawanda and assigned to Walt Withioltz- Dyno Test Manager guy, September 1969, he drove it home, but it won't start next morning and had to be towed back in, it had suffered problems with heat, and related issues like plug fouling, burned points. Took it home again and the same thing happened. It was tuned again and placed in the Pool, and everyone that took it out, basically had to get towed back in. The car having a reputation, that got around and it just sat. The car was sold off, prior to the normal 3000 mile test. It even had similar problems after shipped from one zone to another. I will end here, computer down on charge, getting late, heading to bed. Thus hope to venture in more hopefully later. Thus like in the post showing Blocks available, more unbuilt rare blocks made it into the Counter Parts system, than whole assembled engines. Thus I see many numbers are taken out of context as to how many total engines were built, vice rare components to assemble one.
Identifying this Ebay car engine should be easy by just grabbing the block machine serial number and date off of the side of it. That would tell us exactly when the block was machined.
Going back to my picture files to find these pictures, serial numbering these raised was not a simple process. I am thinking as to how they did these? I am sure someone will come along and explain, my guess would be a type of heat branding.
I own and have restored a ZL1 Motor Casting number 3946052, Foundry Date 4 10 69 287, and Tonawanda White Room Stamping TO605MG. How would this motor fit in your data base?
Spoiler
Spoiler
Block Number Casting Date and Number Tonowanda Stamp Winters Logo
I believe this is the engine from ZL-1 Camaro #41 with a warrantee fitted block installed by Amatucci Chev in Silver Spring MD. It was cast 8/4/69 and was apparently casting #556.
I will also post some pictures of a 0-294550 block from a Chaparral CanAm car, but I will start a new thread since this one has gotten so large and has covered several topics.
01-20-2024, 01:46 PM
