Tom454

Your observation is accepted constructively-

The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it.


Here.... LARS said it too... it's not just me:

"Power kill switches are completely ineffective. When I used to repossess cars, we had aligator-clip wire harnesses with us to jump power to the starter and to the ignition - we never used the ignition switch to start the old cars because people always had kill switches installed when they knew the car was going to get repossessed. I can start a car with a power kill switch in less than 30 seconds. "


Sorry if I sound so "negative", but you would feel similar if your Vette was stolen.

And then when you have to fight the insurance companies for a "fair" shake... and spend countless hours documenting, writing certified letters, and appearing in court or arbitration, then it hits home. They bank on the fact that most people are too timid to sue.... so they push the envelope... it's their standard operating procedure. I really did not want to sue the guy, but they left me no choice.... they MAKE you play dirty. Otherwise, you lose, and they grow into huge conglomerates with fancy country clubs for their employee's.... I have acquaintances who work for some of them... so I have seen it first hand. It's the "corporate way" of doing business.


I have had to "hotwire" a lot of cars in my day.... just as LARS indicated above... it doesn't take much.

If the distributor is designed only to work with a specific secondary electronic circuit (maybe MSD?) then I can see how a kill switch might work.

It only takes a screwdriver or a jumper to spin a starter.
If it's a manual tranny.... I don't even need the starter.

It only takes a single + connection to power most C2/C3 distributors/coils. If it won't start with a busted key mechanism & screwdriver, then cut the wire to the dist/coil and add your own... simple.
I participated in a "National Troubleshooting Contest" in AutoShop in HS.... piece of cake. They would put plastic washers under electrical contacts to try to trick us. We had to deduce, in a very short period of time, what the problem was.

So it stands to reason that anybody who can use a few simple jumpers can start the "typical" C2/C3 Vette... add C1.

LARS and I both have used the jumpers, and it is extremely easy.
I have even cut strips of wire out of a harness to use as a jumper when I didn't have one.

A kill switch is a great idea, but don't get lulled into a false sense of security.

Vehicle theft rings are known to have actual "seminars" in how to steal different types of cars.... how to defeat alarm systems. Todays computer controlled cars are much more complicated than a C3's. If thieves can handle current technology, a C3 is easy pickin.

By all means, install whatever you think is going to work... just don't be surprised how easy they defeat it.

I don't park my Vette anyplace where I cannot see it, with a few exceptions. When home, it's garaged & locked up. People all said... 1971 Corvette.... who would want to steal that old thing? Obviously somebody wanted mine.

All it takes is one loss to be -once bit twice shy-.

My C2 is engineless right now, so that one is hard to start.

A friend of mine did a body-off resto on a 65 Coupe... and gave it to his daughter as a graduation gift. She parked it outside of the Rockaway Townsquare Mall in NJ, and 10 minutes later, when she came out, it was gone.

It leaves a very "unique" feeling in the pit of your stomach, that comes back everytime you think about it. I would feel really bad if I told a bunch of Vette guys that a kill switch is totally reliable, and then one of their cars got stolen, and they had to live the rest of their lives with that "feeling" of cynicism in their stomach.

For y'all with small children.... remember the first time your 4 year old wandered under the clothing racks in a department store and you couldn't find him/her for about 10 seconds.... it's the same feeling.


Also... there is no Santa Claus, and no Easter Bunny.
Oops... Hope I didn't go too far with that one... heh heh.

kend414

Here's a story for the vette owners. As I am discussing security of my vette, he tells me the story of when leaving Atlantic City and about get on the entrance ramp a native decides he's going to carjack his '87 vette convertible. "Yo, get the F*** out of the car!!Problem was my friend's passenger was licensed to carry and aimed his gun into the native's face and replied, "WHAT DID YOU SAY"? before my friend took off. The native backed down initially but would you believe as the vette grew farther the native started cursing them? Unbelievable stupidity. Just keep that in mind and NEVER turn your back on someone you don't trust.

Gage

Security systems is all about risk mitigation. Nothing is 100% effective. But not all theives are as knowledgeable as Lars and others here on the forum. And many thieves will try to hotwire from within the car/break steering column since they will not be as conspicuous, but many will not get out and pop the hood and start troubleshooting for fear of looking suspicous. Why spend time trying to steal a car that won't start when you can move on to another car? If you are being paid to repo a specific car, then the mindset is different, you are going to take the time to get it, but I think most thieves are looking to take anything they can, ie if it won't start they'll move on to a Mustang, camaros, trucks/suburbans/tahoes

DropTopBigBlock

nope, the thread got temporarily hijacked over to carjacking.

Chumpzilla

Well Tom, it wasn't mean to be taken any other way that constructively. It was an honest question. And, no need to rope other people into your defense.

My only real point is that you've essentially noted the easy way to defeat virtually every anti-theft device mentioned here AND disregarded insurance as useless.

I suppose the next logical step for most people would be to conclude you don't use any anti-theft device on your very own car because you've effectively said "what's the point". It would also seem to me the best way to avoid that cynical pit-of-your-stomach feeling, you might just avoid owning a Vette altogether. No Vette, no need to worry.

I don't think there's a single person here who thinks any of the anti-theft devices are absolutely fool proof. Not one. I think we're all well aware of the fact that they can be defeated and your car still stolen. We get it.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude and reading this post may make it seem so... I think you've provided some excellent info on the topic. I just think we're all aware it's impossible to make our Vette's into Fort Knox.

Tom454

Can't quite grasp what point you're trying to make..

All I was doing is trying to tell people that dependence on alarm systems is risky. A kill switch is a good thing... as is an alarm system.
And... having insurance is also a good thing.... but useless as far as getting all of your equity back out of the car.

RE: My defense... I didn't feel I was defending... merely bringing in relevant info.

LARS made a very good point that I couldn't have made... he was involved in repos and knew that owners used kill switches... and they were easily defeated.

I own 2 Vettes... 4 Mustangs... A Silverado... Crown Victoria... Equinox... and just bought a backhoe. So... I don't think I'm afraid to own stuff.

I'm starting to feel like this is a personal thing here... something I said?
I must be missing something here.


Edit: Okay.. I re-read it all.... I think I see.
I wasn't talking down to people... just trying to share my knowledge and experience.

If you use a kill switch, just make sure it can't be defeated with a piece of wire in the engine bay. I guess that sums it all up.

Smooth72

Recently I bought some DVD from http://www.caraudiohelp.com and one of them were how to install a car alarm. One of the features on car alarms I had not seen before was a hood lock that if the alarm had been activated you could not open the car door and use the normal hood release to get in and deactivate the alarm. Also they had another new alarm that was a very high pitch sound you put in the car to drive off the would be thieves.

Tom454

I designed one of those for my C2... it has a cam that rotates via a solenoid, and when in place, the hood latches cannot be operated by the cable. Works pretty good.

corvettecris

Care to share some details on this? Sounds like a very effective idea.

norvalwilhelm

I kill the power to the fuel pumps. The motor will still start but go about 100 feet and then die, Hopefully in the middle of traffic where the theives don't want to hang around.

Tom454

I'll have to dig it out of a box.... my C2 is partially disassembled at the moment. But I do still have it.

DJ Dep

Oh yeah??? Well I PULL THE ROTOR when I am away from the car
An old Army trick I learned to keep my Jeep from disappearing.

Of course, a tow truck makes all that stuff one gigantic waste of time and money

Hi Lars!!!

Dep

corvettecris

I have decided to pack the jack compartment with enough C4 to destroy a city block, along with a special detonator that I can enable by calling a certain number on my cell phone. If I dont have my car, no one does...

DJ Dep

A buddy of mine used to install alarms as a side job. He had all kinds of requests to electrify the seat so that when a crook sat in the car he got zapped. And another one was explosives in the car so that when the car was started it blew it to pieces. Lots of folks would rather see their car obliterated than stolen. I sure would!!!
Unfortunately, the risks to bystanders with explosions and the owner if he forgets to turn the alarm off and fries himself were just too much to overcome

Dep

corvettecris

Ok, check this out. SAy you have a hidden battery cut off, like you might install on a race car, between the battery and the starter, hidden. It will totally remove the battery from the car in essence. How effective is this assuming the thief can't find the switch?

I thought about doing this, but running an auxillary wire to my alarm system so it will still sound incase of a break-in.

DJ Dep

All these kill switches will ONLY stop AMATEUR thieves. Pros who want your car will GET your car no matter what kind of kill switch you use or where you put it. They just hook up a tow truck and tow it away.

Dep

rihwoods

I used to be an alarm freak.Once even back in 1983,in San Francisco,I unhooked the throttle spring in addition setting alarm.After 25 years,I've learned not to worry,but be vigilant.
We went on a around the country 7000 mile road trip staying in ground floor motel rooms with Vette right outside.(Alarm quit working years ago).Use just "Club" on steering wheel as a "deterant".Slept good every night.

DonBecker

I still want more info on the teargas alarm.

That seems like it would work rather well...

rihwoods

Ever hear of the "Taser" alarm? Hear it really "ZAPS" them........

DJ Dep

There is a teargas device used to secure gun safes and closets where valuables are stored. Very simple setup. You open the door, a string pulls a pin on a dispenser and floods the area with pepper gas.
Now you have your car flooded with peppergas and neither the crook nor you can drive it

Dep