Clutch Failure or Tranny, can't tell?
06-04-2010, 09:58 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Clutch Failure or Tranny, can't tell?
What I thought was linkage failure now appears to be something worse. Here's what happen.
I was beating the gears pretty hard almost race style from first to second when something gave way for a split second. I was going about 45 and came to a stop light. Putting it back into first I noticed it wouldnt go in normally but had to give it a little extra jiggle and brute force. Then when taking off from the light, the clutch wouldnt grab crisp like normal but was very slow to get up to RPM. It was like slow motion to get the car going. But it wasnt slipping.
When the clutch slips on hard accels, you can smell the burning. But here there is no smell yet the thing acts like it's slipping but it's not. It behaves somewhere between full slip and regular engaged. So I tried adjusting the clutch rod which is already maxed out. No change.
So I'm wondering if I broke something like a synchro in the tranny would it behave like a slipping clutch? Could I have broke/bent fingers on the diaphram plate? The pedal seems to be in the same position with no change. No noise from TO bearing.
The car is driveable so I'm not going to tear the tranny off yet. Hoping someone here may have had same problem. Thx.
I was beating the gears pretty hard almost race style from first to second when something gave way for a split second. I was going about 45 and came to a stop light. Putting it back into first I noticed it wouldnt go in normally but had to give it a little extra jiggle and brute force. Then when taking off from the light, the clutch wouldnt grab crisp like normal but was very slow to get up to RPM. It was like slow motion to get the car going. But it wasnt slipping.
When the clutch slips on hard accels, you can smell the burning. But here there is no smell yet the thing acts like it's slipping but it's not. It behaves somewhere between full slip and regular engaged. So I tried adjusting the clutch rod which is already maxed out. No change.
So I'm wondering if I broke something like a synchro in the tranny would it behave like a slipping clutch? Could I have broke/bent fingers on the diaphram plate? The pedal seems to be in the same position with no change. No noise from TO bearing.
The car is driveable so I'm not going to tear the tranny off yet. Hoping someone here may have had same problem. Thx.
06-04-2010, 02:42 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Posts: 7,098
Received 374 Likes
on
357 Posts
Clutch operating rods worn?
..I was beating the gears pretty hard almost race style from first to second when something gave way for a split second. I was going about 45 and came to a stop light. Putting it back into first I noticed it wouldnt go in normally but had to give it a little extra jiggle and brute force. Then when taking off from the light, the clutch wouldnt grab crisp like normal but was very slow to get up to RPM. It was like slow motion to get the car going. But it wasnt slipping.
When the clutch slips on hard accels, you can smell the burning. But here there is no smell yet the thing acts like it's slipping but it's not. It behaves somewhere between full slip and regular engaged. So I tried adjusting the clutch rod which is already maxed out. No change.??The pedal seems to be in the same position with no change...
Hoping someone here may have had same problem. Thx.
When the clutch slips on hard accels, you can smell the burning. But here there is no smell yet the thing acts like it's slipping but it's not. It behaves somewhere between full slip and regular engaged. So I tried adjusting the clutch rod which is already maxed out. No change.??The pedal seems to be in the same position with no change...
Hoping someone here may have had same problem. Thx.
U need to look at the clutch operating rods for elongated slots where the holes were when new. I had what i thought was a slipping clutch and no adjustment left. Once the operating rod pin on the clutch pedal broken my inspection found all the clutch operating rods elongated and worn out.
This may or may not be symptomatic of your difficult to get into gear problem.
Whith out full disingagement of the clutch it would be dificult to shift.Also, adjusting the shifter requires a special go-nogo gauge that u can make yourself (or borrow mine if needed).
Good luck and good surfing this summer,
cardo0
06-04-2010, 06:01 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Yeah Cardo, I'm sure I already have the elongated slots on all this old original linkage. What I plan on doing when I get home is unhooking the lingage from the clutch fork and checking the movement of the fork for any unusual behavior.
I have an adjustable pivot ball which I remember I had to adjust quite far out since my flywheel was .200 thinner than stock. I may have adjusted the pivot ball way too far out than necessary but at the time was the only position I could get to work half way right. Since I had to remove tranny every time I adjusted it I kept going more out and more out. Maybe not realizing I had already past some point of no return and now maybe the pivot ball got messed up somehow cause of that. I always knew that something wasnt exactly right and now I am probably paying the price.
Well if all else fails and I can't figure this out I will just have to pull the tranny and replace the clutch which has around 22K on it right now so it wouldnt be a total waist. I could hopefully fix the pivot ball to correct adjustment.
Or I just keep driving it for a while and procrastinate.
I have an adjustable pivot ball which I remember I had to adjust quite far out since my flywheel was .200 thinner than stock. I may have adjusted the pivot ball way too far out than necessary but at the time was the only position I could get to work half way right. Since I had to remove tranny every time I adjusted it I kept going more out and more out. Maybe not realizing I had already past some point of no return and now maybe the pivot ball got messed up somehow cause of that. I always knew that something wasnt exactly right and now I am probably paying the price.
Well if all else fails and I can't figure this out I will just have to pull the tranny and replace the clutch which has around 22K on it right now so it wouldnt be a total waist. I could hopefully fix the pivot ball to correct adjustment.
Or I just keep driving it for a while and procrastinate.
06-05-2010, 12:25 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Cross shaft checks out OK, only side to side play which is acceptable. Pivot ball socket is fine.
Took linkage off and clutch fork basically had no play at all. Fork was in the max forward position resting against the bellhousing rubber trim. This must mean I have now used up any play I use to have when I first installed the clutch 20K ago.
So I think whats happening is when I adjusted by pivot ball to the forward position there was not much room for growth of the diaphram fingers which start to push out aft as the clutch slowly wears. Now they are actually compressing against the TO bearing I think and barely disengaging the clutch. This would explain the slow motion feeling I get off the line.
I cant dial in the clutch rod adjustment since the fork is already all the way forward. So the obvious solution is I have to take tranny off and re-adjust pivot ball to a better position.
Now I have to decide weather to use the same clutch or spend $350 and install a new one. It never ends.
Took linkage off and clutch fork basically had no play at all. Fork was in the max forward position resting against the bellhousing rubber trim. This must mean I have now used up any play I use to have when I first installed the clutch 20K ago.
So I think whats happening is when I adjusted by pivot ball to the forward position there was not much room for growth of the diaphram fingers which start to push out aft as the clutch slowly wears. Now they are actually compressing against the TO bearing I think and barely disengaging the clutch. This would explain the slow motion feeling I get off the line.
I cant dial in the clutch rod adjustment since the fork is already all the way forward. So the obvious solution is I have to take tranny off and re-adjust pivot ball to a better position.
Now I have to decide weather to use the same clutch or spend $350 and install a new one. It never ends.
06-07-2010, 09:47 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Went ahead and pulled tranny yesterday. No major failures and could see clutch fingers now have taken up all the play and my pivot ball needs to be shorter. Also linkage rod at clutch fork has large slotted hole that takes up maybe a quarter 1/4 of my pedal travel. TO bearing looks OK.
So I adjusted pivot ball down from 1.675 to 1.400 which is where it probably should have been. Originally pulled out the short 1.375 GM pivot and since my flywheel was .200 thinner than stock I assumed I needed to add that to the original 1.375 making it 1.575. Then that didnt seem to work and I kept getting longer until 1.675 seemed to just barely work. Looking back now that assumption is completely wrong. Just cause flywheel changes thickness doesnt really mean you have to do radical change to pivot dimensions.
Tranny is bolted on and now I need to put linkage back on and see if new adjustment has actually worked. Got the pedal and threaded rod feeling/looking correct. Everything should be good soon.
Working under the car on four jacks in California makes you worry about earthquakes which could possibly shake the car off the jacks. Thought about it yesterday. Woke up at 2:30 am this morning to a 3.6 local earthquake in Hermosa Beach.
Maybe I should buy a lotto ticket today.
So I adjusted pivot ball down from 1.675 to 1.400 which is where it probably should have been. Originally pulled out the short 1.375 GM pivot and since my flywheel was .200 thinner than stock I assumed I needed to add that to the original 1.375 making it 1.575. Then that didnt seem to work and I kept getting longer until 1.675 seemed to just barely work. Looking back now that assumption is completely wrong. Just cause flywheel changes thickness doesnt really mean you have to do radical change to pivot dimensions.
Tranny is bolted on and now I need to put linkage back on and see if new adjustment has actually worked. Got the pedal and threaded rod feeling/looking correct. Everything should be good soon.
Working under the car on four jacks in California makes you worry about earthquakes which could possibly shake the car off the jacks. Thought about it yesterday. Woke up at 2:30 am this morning to a 3.6 local earthquake in Hermosa Beach.
Maybe I should buy a lotto ticket today.
06-07-2010, 11:16 AM
#7
Race Director
06-07-2010, 08:05 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Posts: 7,098
Received 374 Likes
on
357 Posts
Fork clip goes in the slot to tension the fork - on over the flange.
Header should read: Fork clip goes in the slot with ther fork to tension the fork - not over the flange.
Just a reminder as i'm shure u know this. A common booboo is to slip the fork clip over the throw brg flange instead of inside of the channel with the fork where it can act as spacer/tensioner. That clip can find its way into the wrong place even with the best intensions - double check here.:o
Oh and keep your creeper wheels greased incase of after shocks u may need to roll out fast.
Nice work and good luck,
cardo0
Just a reminder as i'm shure u know this. A common booboo is to slip the fork clip over the throw brg flange instead of inside of the channel with the fork where it can act as spacer/tensioner. That clip can find its way into the wrong place even with the best intensions - double check here.:o
Oh and keep your creeper wheels greased incase of after shocks u may need to roll out fast.
Nice work and good luck,
cardo0
Last edited by cardo0; 06-07-2010 at 08:07 PM. Reason: typo in header
06-08-2010, 12:05 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Still old school Cardo, just plain hard cardboard for me.
Actually that's funny you bring this up cause my brother in law was telling my wife I'm crazy for not having a creeper.
He's probably right.
Actually that's funny you bring this up cause my brother in law was telling my wife I'm crazy for not having a creeper.
He's probably right.
