RC000E

Not necessarily at the same time, but has anyone owned both?

The vette has big torque, the S2k doesn't
The S2k revs like crazy and weighs less
The S2k pulls about the same numbers on the skidpad
S2k braking distance is dead same +-5 ft

That's the surface numbers, but what about the deeper facts. Does one have more brake fade than the other, does one feel more at home in 0-60 versus the other. Does one seem to accel in a road course type setting versus the other? Anyone actually beat the hell out of both and feel they are able to give an objective comparison?

toptechx6

This is not exactly what you are looking for but I will relate it for what it is worth. A few years back I inspected a local C5 for a out of state buyer who was looking to move up from an S2000. I drove the C5, low mileage, maintained, (manual trans) and it was excellent, the rest of the car looked good and it was eventually purchased and driven back to the midwest. In less than six months the car was back up for sale, as I recall the shift quality and handling were the main objection, I believe the owner bought a newer S2K when the C5 finally sold.

mnstrlt1

This is actually an interesting comparison (to me). I've got a miata (my third one) and my buddy (who has a C5) also happens to have an 03' s2000.

He heavily prefer's the C5 (I don't blame him).

My previous miata (96' with Mp62 supercharger, GC coil overs, poly bush, roll-bar, wheels/tires etc) would put about 5 car lengths on the S2000 from a dig, or rolling start. Keep in mind the miata is about 500lbs lighter.

The VERY few times I've driven his s2000 I can say that I've thuroughly enjoyed it. Very tight car, great throttle response, great shift feel, steering input feels great as well.

I've always liked smaller cars (like you're wearing it). I also come from rx7/fiero/etc. routes and have almost always owned 2-door/2-seaters... that happen to be rev happy.

I'm still contemplating on getting an s2000, but like most Honda's they're slightly over-priced.

Most guys that complain about S2k's seem to agree that they don't like the lack of bottom-end power....

to me, all that means is that you've got to adjust your driving style to match the car.

Snakecharmer383

If this helps...buddy just sold his 04 on ebay about a month ago. I went with him to get it just outside OC. I knew nothing about the car going down. I drove about half way back home and I loved the gearbox/pattern. The car was just way to small for me. The car felt like it could handle very well. It's really sad because for what he paid and then sold it for and all the cleaning and extra's he did.... Would I buy one, NO! Didn't feel like it had any power really.

pappy.72

If you love to rev an engine to 9000rpm and like to use one of the best shifters on the market then it is a great car. It was just too small for me (6ft 2in). Honda reliability is a plus too. A very fun car if you know how it like to be driven. The sound of the engine at redline is so cool.

RC000E

Well, to put it plainly, despite my long term interest in the Corvette, my budget led me to Honda's, which then led me to an 8 year business building the cars. I've built 500whp+ Civics, 250whp+ N/A Civics and despite what people assume, the cars are incredible when built properly in terms of braking, suspension and engine. For 15,000.00 you can build a simply incredible Civic or Integra that will compete on a road course with just about anything out there that cost 5-10x's as much.

The aftermarket is so strong you can get 10x the parts you can for the C4 Corvette. They're light, they're nimble, and the motors are track bred. The fact is, if your an old guy who likes to show off your 350lb/ft of torque by blipping the throttle half way at a light then thinking it's something serious, the S2000 isn't for you. The S2k is a driver car and if you put it on a road course, it's not easily beaten.

An interesting fact is that the C5, when it debuted, officially posted an 8min 40sec time around Nurburgring, while the S2k came in 1 sec faster at 8:39. Proof that that the car is extremely capable on a road track. I know the s2k, I just don't KNOW the C4 or C5.

I've considered crossing soon into the Vette world, I just absolutely fear I'll be disappointed. I currently have a 235whp (2010lb car, 2233 with me in it) ITB'd, huge cammed, 12.5:1 compression, ITR trannied Civic hatch that absolutely owns a road track. I don't expect a C4 to impress me to that extent, but being it's a Corvette I hope it isn't too far behind....I mean these were premier sports cars for the era.

In the end, I know what I have to do. Buy one, build it, and then decide. I must say I do look forward to some instantaneous torque to the extent the Corvette has, but my car currently crosses the 150lbft barrier at 4000rpm, while i spin the motor to 9500, so it's quite liveable versus your typical grocery getting or riceboy-with-a-fartcan civic.

Anyway, I know the S2, just not the C4, so i figured it'd allow me a little of what to expect.

pologreen1

I was in one that was pretty up to 100, I think it could take some vettes, depending on the driver.

USAsOnlyWay

I was going to write something else having flogged an s2k (and I've played with a Lotus Elise too, I'd go with that out of the two) for a day and of course my C4, but I just read your reply.

Sounds to me like you shouldn't do it.

If you have any sense whatsoever, you know going from a car that spins to 9k, makes 300hp, and weighs 2000lbs to a car that spins to 6k, makes 300hp, and weighs 3000lbs is not even a comparison worth making.

You will be disappointed.

RC000E

Well, first of all, the S2k doesn't make 300, it makes 240. Secondly, your talking about a purpose built and newer technology car versus the C4. I don't expect the C4 to hang with an S2k on a tight road course, hell...the C5 couldn't beat the S2k at Nurburgring, so the C4 certainly wouldn't.

I'm simply trying to determine that these cars aren't just higher priced Camaro's. I've owned two F-body's in the past and by the looks of the C4 interior they have plenty of Fbody flavor. The fully independent suspension and lighter weight hopefully goes a long way....right?

pologreen1

Well I see your direction now, and all I can say is watch the F/S section. You are talking about a c4, and there are some very competent c4's for sale right now, that unless you spend huge money on a honda you are not going to compete in the long run with a built corvette.
handling power or otherwise.

for 12-15 you mention, you can get a full blown race c4, and I doubt a built S2000 will hang with a built c4 on a track.

They are nice, but they are not the same class, maybe an NSX but not S2000.

mnstrlt1

wow- kind of turned into a "bashing on corvettes- particularly c4's" thread!

Clearly, you're a huge Honda fan! I've now read several of your posts constantly referring back to the chambers on these 4-bangers and high-compression (E85 sippin') imports.

they "can" be built right. Heck, toss $10,000-$15,000 at nearly anything and you'd have a combination that is impressive. $10,000-$15,000 gets you an Ls-x into a miata/RX7/fiero/240sx... along with the t-56 and independent rear-end. Anyone of those combinations will hand a STOCK c4 it's a$$. Heck, I've even seen an Ls-x S2000! (ideal combination).

I like the stiff chassis of the s2k, I like the fact that you can stuff big-rubber into the existing wheel wells which translates to mega-G's around the corners.

they look "sick", they make good power, get good gas mileage, and are well built.

GM products (in general) are not equivalent (in terms of fit/finish, and build quality).

the c5 (regardless of the .01 second difference which is practically irrelevent) is an incredible machine. It's got just as much aftermarket support as the s2000. much more power-train market-place support. Easily makes power levels from 400rwhp-600rwhp NA (take a look at the other sections of this corvette community with big-inch LS-x builds). Will easily accomidate HUGE tires... and the suspension options are limitless (mono-tube multi-adjust dampers with coil-overs and remote mount reservoirs, etc).

in my opinion, the c5 is a superior car to BOTH the c4 and the s2k, hands down... and when comparing modified-to-modified, I think you'll find a fair share of 700-1000rwhp STREET DRIVEABLE monsters in the other sections of this community.

Personally, I went back to the miata for the third time because it was much more "on the edge". You got to push these cars much harder to get the rewards. You got to be a better driver to experience the limits of these smaller 2-seater sports cars. shift a dozens times more than a domestic torque monster mill, etc.

"if you can't go fast with 100hp, 1000hp wont help you"...

mnstrlt1

to add to my last post,

the c4 is no slouch! I think the road-race and auto-cross sections of this community might better suit your search of a solid answer. Nearly anything you can think of is offered for these cars (although these days it feels like the vendors are somewhat limited).

I mean ultra-exotic suspension options, exotic control-arm bushing options ( fully adjustable control arms from Guldstand and even spherical bearings) etc. to roll-bars, rock-solid ZF6 blue-printing, rear-end swap options etc.

for some reason the "big-dogs" don't hang out on this forum? I am talking about the open challenge racers with solid modifications and big-buck investments. when I talk to Bill (Owner of zfdoc.com) he always mentions customers (over seas and locally) that are stuffing 572 cubic-inch big-blocks into these c4's and crazy small blocks making 1000+rwhp and going into the 220mph+ range on open track events.... i'd like to hear from these guys!

BTW-

I'd definitely one of the c4 owners that like to see MORE options available for mods.... if you're inclined to do so, maybe you should consider it? (chassis stiffening products, alternative power-adder options, appealing body mods-flares- etc).

C-4 Now

S-2000 is a fun driver but just lacks that V-8 low end kick. It takes effort to find somewhere to run 9,000 rpm's. JMHO

mnstrlt1

I'd agree only to an extent. these smaller 4-banger sport cars typically have a lot shorter rear-end gear (4.10's, 4:30's), so wrapping them to 9,000 isn't that far fetched.

my miata takes a dozen shifts to get to 40mph lol...

RC000E

Just makin conversation guys...lol. I don't want it to be a bash on anything.

Yes, I make frequent references to the Honda side because my build resume spans 10 years with those cars and I've fully explored what those cars can offer from bone stock to full tilt modified. The technology is in those cars, that's why they are making the power they are making.

From a Corvette perspective, I'm just thinking back to my Fbody days and that's my only reservation. Those cars were a disappointment until 94 when the gen changed.

Certainly anything modified has potential, and it seems the core of the C4's lends itself to being modified well. This leads me to wonder though, why C5's and C6's seem to be much more frequently modified than the C4's. Just looking through the forums shows that. Are the C4's being occupied by an older crowd versus the typical owners of the newer cars? Is it also possible that typical C5 and C6 Corvette owners are more inclined to build via paying someone versus C4 guys, while few and far between, are DIY guys?

I guess it made me raise the question, "why are there so few modified C4's on here versus the other gen's?" Is it a limitation of parts, or a limitation of the car? I don't want to believe it's the car...lol.

Corvette returned to racing in 1997, so I'd expect the C5+ chassis to be more capable on some levels.

MnstrLt1, I do want to point out though, the S2000 bested the C5 Corvette by a full 1 second, not .01 seconds....just had to point that out...lol. .01 doesn't say anything, 1 full second on the other hand does. Additionally my 10-15k invested figure includes the car itself, not 10-15k plus the car. Regardless though, I do agree, if you modify anything it'll be very capable.

The very reason though, I've considered this move, is that my business and my work will never be recognized on a Civic. As unfortunate as that is, I do need a "name" to carry my where I want to go. Corvette is a different level of car, and to speak truly I'm getting the car, that's not a question. Just having my pre-wedding jitters...lol. I will say, that on some levels I enjoy the fact that there aren't many highly modified C4's...it'll allow me to stand out that much easier.

The Honda aftermarket is FLOODED. There isn't a part out there that you can't get at least 4-15 different versions of. It became way too easy and way too competitive. You can build 10 different Civics, with not one identical brand of part on any of them and those cars will go to war on a track. Japan has a huge part in that. Here Americans tend to build only certain status cars when they come out (vette's, mustangs, etc). In Japan...they race everything...vans, cars, trucks, scooters...everything. So, there are parts for everything Honda, Nissan, Toyota...you name it. Here, it's just more selective.

What's also funny is, if you look at the enthusiasts over there, the older guys lead the pack. Street races in Yokohama at the Daikoku Futo rest area off the Wangan are dominated by the 40+ crowd. They've got the most money, therefore they are the big dawgs to beat on the highway. They aren't part throttle cruising either...they'll go 200+ in Skylines, RX-7's and Supra's. They have clubs of 35+ year old businessmen that own NSX's, highly modified, that just get together and terrorize the highways in what are essentially race built cars.

For me it's more than about just Honda's, it's about the entire culture and how the Japanese view everything. They see everything as having the need to be improved upon, the need to be individualized and the need to be supreme. They don't buy cars and let them be stock. They see a car as a basis, not as a completed achievement just by owning it, like the majority of Corvette owners.

I've officially rambled like hell though....so I'll go now...hahaha.

Aardwolf

I drag raced one and won no problem. I haven't seen one at any of my road course events (no roll bar?). I would much rather have my C4 then an S2000.

LTxDave

Do a little research. The C4 has as much or more racing heritage than the C5.

Tom400CFI

First, I didn't take your posts at C4 bashing at all. I thought it was good input, about the Honda....one of the cars in question by the OP.

This is a bit off topic but I want to comment on the above, and being "dissapointed", because I have "lived" that already.

I've owned three thridgen f-bods, a C6, and a C4, in that order. For ME, the "image" of what a Corvette would be, was way, WAY different than reality, once I got one. My C6 ownership was a complete dissapointment partly for objective, legitimate reasons, and partly b/c reality didn't meet expectations. Now I have a C4, which I like way, WAY more than the C6, but still, it's not what I had always imagined a Corvette would be, when I had F-bods, and lusted for 'Vettes. As platforms to modify, the F-bod will get you to a goal, faster, and cheaper than a C4, I think. As a total street/strip package, the C4's image goes a long way, as to how you (I) feel about owning/driving it. It is a cool package that an f-body isn't and never will be. But a good, well set up F-body is a damn good car.
The C4 can somewhat better, in SOME ways, but stock, it will probably be dissapointing (soft/mushy/slow/flexy).

VetteBabe1

Just MHO, but yeah, sometimes little, high revving cars "feel" fast because there is a lot of revving, noise, shifting and action going on, but with so little torque, I wouldn't think they are in actuality too "quick". I love me some big torque, I don't like to rev to 9000, so an import would never suit. My Viper has a similar feel to the Vette, and I love it.

I would think light to light the C4 - particularly the L98, would eat it alive, my 87 was the 0-60 master in its day. LOL Only thing that would challenge it was a super modded something on drag radials or slicks, or a Typhoon/Syclone.

Hondas are GOOD cars though. I would expect the actual overal quality (fit and finish, rattles, flex, looseness) to be much better. But, typically imports aren't 1/4 mile cars that I've seen. Much better top end that low end. Just very different animals all around.

mnstrlt1

I'll agree that a smaller sports car (geared accordingly) will "feel" fast. It's much more of an engaged experience. That's why the older british sports cars are considered fun/memorable.

the corvette is "too easy" to get in serious trouble in (i.e. thripple digit speeds). I mean 60mph is covered in 1st gear (in the newer platform cars).