When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I still enjoy following this thread. If I kept the coupe it was my intent to do this conversation on it despite being NA now just to open up future options for fueling. And you know I dig the custom work like this. It also remains helpful info for any future swappers of early LS if using factory harness and ecu.
It's been a while since I screwed with a cax file, that kicked my *** for a little bit getting it to work. I copied the cax and renamed to my OS, then dumped both files in the correct EFILive folder. Downloaded an L59 tune with the 12587603 OS and put it side by side with my tune and started pilfering all the stuff that was zeroed out in my tune. I'll go through this again tomorrow to make sure I didn't miss anything. I'm not sure about the xdf document, but for you EFILive users if you open the cax file in Notepad you can read off all the parameters that need to be looked at so you don't miss anything. I'm curious to do this, log the torque, and see if the motor actually makes any more NA. If not now, after I skim the heads it ought to help some. I hear you can run cooler with E85 as well. Plus it really lays the foundation for boost.
The gains NA are going to be minor if the recent Engine Masters is to be applicable, but at least 10 or so plus the cooling benefit. You are spot on about boost prep. And when you get there if the ecu is already set to go then it will be one less variant at that time to worry about.
Which pump(s) are you running for this setup again?
The gains NA are going to be minor if the recent Engine Masters is to be applicable, but at least 10 or so plus the cooling benefit. You are spot on about boost prep. And when you get there if the ecu is already set to go then it will be one less variant at that time to worry about.
Which pump(s) are you running for this setup again?
Stock pump and injectors, this is kind of a knee jerk mod for me. Back in 2017 I got my hands on a 2.8L Kenne Bell, but it seems those choke out a bit early with the tiny brick and the sharp turn the air has to make in the lower intake manifold. Back then the flex fuel stuff was total voodoo. I'm still considering running it though, just have to be honest with myself that it is going to be limited. But if I can get the car around 420 wheel before any boost, it shouldn't take much to hit 600 wheel. Where do the stock pumps run out anyway? I can get cheap 42# L67 injectors to run NA as I have data for them and I'm running them in both my trucks. But being at 6000# altitude I can get away with a bit more.
I don't know enough to guide you here. I have typically looked up fuel psi and flow capacity and just gone with 1/3 beyond my needs. One my dual 430 setup I did something different and referred to Bret for full guidance on my fuel system since it was already going to be more complicated than the ones I had done before which were just a basic medium flow pump and afpr on factory lines. The duals with return system combined with my late style crossover and adding bulkheads was steps beyond for me.
I left myself the dynamics for this morning as I wasn't too keen on just copy/pasting those over having been through hell with them on my 98 K1500. I'd changed the intake manifold out on it which altered the injector trajectory and the thing needs A LOT more transient fueling to respond to throttle input. I see the P59 stuff is all 3D, the P01 was a mix of 2D and 3D. I made an Excel spreadsheet that I'm cleaning up but is functional. What you end up with is a stock Z06 table at 0 ethanol, and then the corrective values from the truck tune applied at every ECT and ethanol cell from the truck tune jammed on top. Hopefully GM used good logic there. I guess now I just need to buy a sensor, pin it in, and flip on the flex fuel switch in the tune. . . and see what all I screwed up.
In terms of the repinning: Blue connector: P59 has 4 additional ground pins: 24,27,64,67, grounded to G106 (engine, above starter). Seems simple, just add additional pins/wires
Red/green connector:
(1) Alternator pin needs moved from pin 52 (gray wire) to pin 75. Simple enough
(2) The O2 sensors on P59 are grounded to PCM so it can monitor heater circuit. B1S1 is pin 72, B2S1 is pin 74. (I didn't bother writing down rear sensors, but I can dig that up if needed) I don't see these HO2S Heater Low Control as a pin option on the 2003 P01 ECU...so just ignore these?
Ethanol sensor: 3 wire pinout. +12V, ground and Blue pin 56 for signal Simple enough
@Supercharged111 what have you found out about a E85 fuel pump option? Do you have a "early style" system with pump on bottom of DS tank? I'm thinking a minimum 340lph pump. My local shop/tuner also suggests a new filter/regulator since the stock one is very unreliable and won't flow right.
In terms of the repinning: Blue connector: P59 has 4 additional ground pins: 24,27,64,67, grounded to G106 (engine, above starter). Seems simple, just add additional pins/wires
Red/green connector:
(1) Alternator pin needs moved from pin 52 (gray wire) to pin 75. Simple enough
(2) The O2 sensors on P59 are grounded to PCM so it can monitor heater circuit. B1S1 is pin 72, B2S1 is pin 74. (I didn't bother writing down rear sensors, but I can dig that up if needed) I don't see these HO2S Heater Low Control as a pin option on the 2003 P01 ECU...so just ignore these?
Ethanol sensor: 3 wire pinout. +12V, ground and Blue pin 56 for signal Simple enough
@Supercharged111 what have you found out about a E85 fuel pump option? Do you have a "early style" system with pump on bottom of DS tank? I'm thinking a minimum 340lph pump. My local shop/tuner also suggests a new filter/regulator since the stock one is very unreliable and won't flow right.
Mine's an 04 so late everything, I believe that makes the pump stuff a bit more painful. Some dirty math tells me that, here at 6500#, with a stock cam, I have sufficient injector and pump for this little science experiment. Consensus seems to be the stock pump is good for 500 wheel +/-, any more than that do a boost a pump if you don't feel like monkeying with the pump itself. I have one on the shelf from another project. Cammed with 42# injectors (that I'll get this season) will be sufficient NA. I have some 60#ers on the shelf if I decide to throw boost at it. I'm a bit apprehensive to go past the 600 wheel mark on a stock bottom end, so that keeps the fueling needs fairly simple. But I did do an AEM 340 in my tow pig, a Whippled 454, and that pump is overkill for that application for sure, but hasn't caused any issues since I put it in back in 2019. If an AEM fits the C5 it has my vote.
Ahh, got ya. Well being a late fuel system should make it easier to find options. A lot of the stuff out there is available and designed for late style and into C6 systems.
Also keep in mind pumping loss as pressure goes up. 340lph is rated at I think 40psi. Running GM pressures of 55-58 pumps put out around ~320lph. AEM has pump curves you can reference. With going e85 and needing more flow PLUS running the pump at higher pressure and losing flow, I figure it's safe with a "340lph"
Last edited by smitty2919; 02-27-2023 at 03:15 PM.
2003 to 2004 Blue connector:
2004 has grounds Pin 24/27/64/67 that need to be ADDED to 2003 Blue connector. Matching 2003 Blue connector Pin 24/27/64/67 are "not used" and can simply add wires for these to a ground.
2004 Green Connector:
Has Pin 72/74 as ADDITIONAL HO2S Heater Low Control wires (72 is B1S1 74 is B2S1) These are not shown in the 2003 Red connector so I'm not sure where to re-pin them to
Your mention of Blue 25/26/28/29 already align and match between 2003 Blue and 2004 Blue (so no re-pin needed)
On this one the guy is talking about using an older PCM like ours on a newer harness for swaps.
Reversing his work, which is not a Flex swap or 1:1 with yours, but does that point you straight or just toss more fuel on the fire? I'm skimming fast and saving pages, not reading for content just yet. It appears the question is the number of O2s on the car as he splices some of them together.
If we get it straight we can eventually add a section to that PCM / TAC file to outline the conversion for folks and keep this clean and easy.
>>> EDIT: so I don't slop up the page too much, here is another link with partial information and perspective as I was seeking the P59 pinouts to compare instead of trying to understand or infer from people. I think the guy up above was on the right page. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...m-pinouts.html
On this one the guy is talking about using an older PCM like ours on a newer harness for swaps.
Reversing his work, which is not a Flex swap or 1:1 with yours, but does that point you straight or just toss more fuel on the fire? I'm skimming fast and saving pages, not reading for content just yet. It appears the question is the number of O2s on the car as he splices some of them together.
If we get it straight we can eventually add a section to that PCM / TAC file to outline the conversion for folks and keep this clean and easy.
I'll have to digest that info. He does mention the grounds and heater circuit wires but I'll need to flip the thought process going old to new vs new to old lol.
Had to go get a windshield washer pump for the wife's car and pop it in.
I sat down while she's been on the bike and worked these up from the second link above where @Vette97sc hosted the 2004 C5 P59 pinouts. I verified each line, then converted what I had to match the P59 listing and marked the DIFFERENT pinout (numbers only) in red to get a quick glance. Where I added the HO2S functions for the Green/Red connector I have yet to locate a file to correctly indicate which banks/sensors run on which pin so they read as his file does: "HO2S Heater Low Control"
Getting close.
EDIT:
And here is some info entered from reading and taking notes SOMEWHERE along the way which is taking someone's comments in 72,74 and entering then and then based on the number pattern applying it to 52,53. This might be your setup.
You DID end up adding those additional grounds to the Blue connector right?
Yes, I believe so. I honestly can't remember 100 percent, but I wrote it out as such, so I'm pretty sure that's what I did. I remember looking into the O2 sensor ground thing and then just saying screw it.
Stumbled on to this post, and it is all very interesting to me. Went through most of it, and doesn't look like a whole lot of talk about fuel pump and injector size. Can an E85 setup we run on stock injectors and stock fuel pump? My car is basically stock at the moment.
02-25-2023, 12:08 PM
