LEO's from Texas, or any 2 plate states, opinions please
04-26-2008, 08:11 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Apr 2007
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I'm curious if this front plate bracket from the Corvette Museum store would satisfy the state requirements.
As it's worded in Texas, it says you need 2 plates, one on the back, and one on the front. There is no specific language saying WHERE on the front (ie, on the bumper, on the grill, ect). It does say that you can't have a license plate frame, or any other attachmet, or apply a coating to the plate that obscures the visibility of the plate information. This thing has nothing attached to it, but unless you were directly in front of it, I don't see how you could see the plate in it's entirety, if even then. But I haven't found any language in the Texas DPS rules that say this type of mounting doesn't satisfy the requirement, as it doesn't say anywhere that you couldn't mount the plate in a way that the plate itself is obscured, just that you can't attach anything TO the plate to obscure it.
I want to comply w/ this law, but I want to do so w/ the least amount of visual damage as possible.
If this doesn't fly, I'll get the top flight bracket. But if the real intent of having the front plate on is for laser tag, then I would think that even this thing would present a big enough target.
As it's worded in Texas, it says you need 2 plates, one on the back, and one on the front. There is no specific language saying WHERE on the front (ie, on the bumper, on the grill, ect). It does say that you can't have a license plate frame, or any other attachmet, or apply a coating to the plate that obscures the visibility of the plate information. This thing has nothing attached to it, but unless you were directly in front of it, I don't see how you could see the plate in it's entirety, if even then. But I haven't found any language in the Texas DPS rules that say this type of mounting doesn't satisfy the requirement, as it doesn't say anywhere that you couldn't mount the plate in a way that the plate itself is obscured, just that you can't attach anything TO the plate to obscure it.
I want to comply w/ this law, but I want to do so w/ the least amount of visual damage as possible.
If this doesn't fly, I'll get the top flight bracket. But if the real intent of having the front plate on is for laser tag, then I would think that even this thing would present a big enough target.I'd be surprised if your State would permit otherwise.
Red Cell.
04-26-2008, 08:16 PM
#22
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Here's the actual quote...
§ 502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED
LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person
attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or
registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;
(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor
vehicle law other than by the department;
(3) is assigned for a registration period other than
the registration period in effect;
(4) is fictitious;
(5) has blurring or reflective matter that
significantly impairs the readability of the name of the state in
which the vehicle is registered or the letters or numbers of the
license plate number at any time;
(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker,
decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and
that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the name of the state in which the
vehicle is registered; or
(7) has a coating, covering, protective material, or
other apparatus that:
(A) distorts angular visibility or
detectability;
(B) alters or obscures one-half or more of the
name of the state in which the vehicle is registered; or
(C) alters or obscures the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the color of the plate.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under
Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more
than $200, unless it is shown at the trial of the offense that the
owner knowingly altered or made illegible the letters, numbers, and
other identification marks, in which case the offense is a Class B
misdemeanor.
(c) to (e) Repealed by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, §
30.66, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.
The only thing that I think they could get you with would be the 7-A,B,C stuff. And even with those, the wording is such that is says that the plate has a coating (no), covering (no), protective material (no), or other aparatus. That's the key, I don't believe that simply mounting the plate is the same thing as the plate "having an aparatus" that affects the visibility of the plate. As far as I can tell, if you mount the plate clean, w/ no attachments or coverings, or protective materials, that it doesn't say anywhere that the plate, by itself, has to be completely visible.
To me, this would seem to be more legal than throwing it up on your dash, where it lays at an amost 90 degree angle, w/ a windshield between the LEO and the plate to obscure the plate w/ its reflections.
Curiously, there is language in the same section that says you CAN obscure your plate w/ a trailer hitch, wheelchair lift, or bike rack.
This was just an exercise in legaleze. I understand the intent is to have the plate mounted and visible from the front, but the way it's written, it doesn't specifically say that. It DOES say you can't put anything on it that obscures it, but it doesn't say that you can't mount it in a way that it's not partially obscured.
In any event, thanks for the legal interpretation LEOs. I figure theres a chance I could get out of the ticket, but I'll just do the Top Flight.
§ 502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED
LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person
attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or
registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;
(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor
vehicle law other than by the department;
(3) is assigned for a registration period other than
the registration period in effect;
(4) is fictitious;
(5) has blurring or reflective matter that
significantly impairs the readability of the name of the state in
which the vehicle is registered or the letters or numbers of the
license plate number at any time;
(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker,
decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and
that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the name of the state in which the
vehicle is registered; or
(7) has a coating, covering, protective material, or
other apparatus that:
(A) distorts angular visibility or
detectability;
(B) alters or obscures one-half or more of the
name of the state in which the vehicle is registered; or
(C) alters or obscures the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the color of the plate.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under
Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more
than $200, unless it is shown at the trial of the offense that the
owner knowingly altered or made illegible the letters, numbers, and
other identification marks, in which case the offense is a Class B
misdemeanor.
(c) to (e) Repealed by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, §
30.66, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.
The only thing that I think they could get you with would be the 7-A,B,C stuff. And even with those, the wording is such that is says that the plate has a coating (no), covering (no), protective material (no), or other aparatus. That's the key, I don't believe that simply mounting the plate is the same thing as the plate "having an aparatus" that affects the visibility of the plate. As far as I can tell, if you mount the plate clean, w/ no attachments or coverings, or protective materials, that it doesn't say anywhere that the plate, by itself, has to be completely visible.
To me, this would seem to be more legal than throwing it up on your dash, where it lays at an amost 90 degree angle, w/ a windshield between the LEO and the plate to obscure the plate w/ its reflections.
Curiously, there is language in the same section that says you CAN obscure your plate w/ a trailer hitch, wheelchair lift, or bike rack.
This was just an exercise in legaleze. I understand the intent is to have the plate mounted and visible from the front, but the way it's written, it doesn't specifically say that. It DOES say you can't put anything on it that obscures it, but it doesn't say that you can't mount it in a way that it's not partially obscured.
In any event, thanks for the legal interpretation LEOs. I figure theres a chance I could get out of the ticket, but I'll just do the Top Flight.
Last edited by Vettin08; 04-26-2008 at 08:23 PM.
04-26-2008, 08:16 PM
#23
Safety Car
Probably better than nothing. I did a similar thing with my SS. If it is partly visible, your chances of being stopped are lower and you'll probably end up with a warning rather than a ticket.
I'm plateless up front, with the plate in the trunk. "I bought the car out of state" is my story and I'm sticking to it.
I'm plateless up front, with the plate in the trunk. "I bought the car out of state" is my story and I'm sticking to it.
04-26-2008, 10:01 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
The law doesn't say that. It says you can't attach something (a license plate frame for example) or use a coating of any sort that obscures the plate info. It DOES NOT SAY that the plate couldn't be obscured as a result of where it was mounted. At least the info that I've read says that, I'm curious if there is more to it that a LEO could contribute.
I might even think about mounting it to the front surface of the grille, so it would be recessed back into the "mouth" a bit.
Where are all the LEOs??? Is Dunkin Donuts having a special?
I might even think about mounting it to the front surface of the grille, so it would be recessed back into the "mouth" a bit.
Where are all the LEOs??? Is Dunkin Donuts having a special?
With your reasoning I must be legal...
04-26-2008, 10:10 PM
#25
Drifting
I think that you're more apt to be stopped with half the plate showing than if you had no plate at all. If the police think that you're trying to "get around the law", it's almost a guarantee that you'll be stopped.
04-26-2008, 10:19 PM
#26
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Feb 2008
Location: DFW TX
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For what it's worth, I have driven Vettes about the DFW area for over 10 years, none of which had front license plates and was never stopped on account of their absence. When I have gotten stopped and/or cited for other violations, mostly speeding 
, the harshest reprimands I received for not having FLP's were verbal warnings. So, although it may be the "law of the land" here in Texas, it is rarely enforced. I honestly do not think LE care's that much about it.
, the harshest reprimands I received for not having FLP's were verbal warnings. So, although it may be the "law of the land" here in Texas, it is rarely enforced. I honestly do not think LE care's that much about it.
04-26-2008, 10:32 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
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Part of the problem you're having understanding why you can or can't do something is that you're reading the wrong stature in Texas Code...this is the correct code in regards to having 2 plates....
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Basically as the LEO stated before, if a LEO has trouble seeing where the plate is from and if it's valid, you're opening yourself to get pulled over. I lived in Texas for 20+ yrs and have family and friends in numerous levels of Law Enforcement in the state. Based on experience and their feedback, DPS Troopers are the ones most likely to pull you over for things like that but other LEO will use it as a "trigger event" to pull you over and see what else may be going on with you (i.e drugs, DUI, etc.).
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Basically as the LEO stated before, if a LEO has trouble seeing where the plate is from and if it's valid, you're opening yourself to get pulled over. I lived in Texas for 20+ yrs and have family and friends in numerous levels of Law Enforcement in the state. Based on experience and their feedback, DPS Troopers are the ones most likely to pull you over for things like that but other LEO will use it as a "trigger event" to pull you over and see what else may be going on with you (i.e drugs, DUI, etc.).
Last edited by matsarge; 04-26-2008 at 10:41 PM.
04-26-2008, 10:43 PM
#28
Safety Car
Thread Starter
For what it's worth, I have driven Vettes about the DFW area for over 10 years, none of which had front license plates and was never stopped on account of their absence. When I have gotten stopped and/or cited for other violations, mostly speeding , the harshest reprimands I received for not having FLP's were verbal warnings. So, although it may be the "law of the land" here in Texas, it is rarely enforced. I honestly do not think LE care's that much about it.
, the harshest reprimands I received for not having FLP's were verbal warnings. So, although it may be the "law of the land" here in Texas, it is rarely enforced. I honestly do not think LE care's that much about it.
Part of the problem you're having understanding why you can or can't do something is that you're reading the wrong stature in Texas Code...this is the correct code in regards to having 2 plates....
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Basically as the LEO stated before, if a LEO has trouble seeing where the plate is from and if it's valid, you're opening yourself to get pulled over.
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
Basically as the LEO stated before, if a LEO has trouble seeing where the plate is from and if it's valid, you're opening yourself to get pulled over.
plates for the registration period. I see where it says you have to display it, but in the original picture, it is displayed. And I have no doubt, if you got eye level w/ the thing, you could probably see it all. The statute does not say WHERE to display it, nor does it say it HAS to be unobscured.
Look, I'm not really trying to be picky here, I'm just investigating a legal definition. Unlike most C6 guys on here, I actually DO want to comply w/ the law in this regard, but I don't see why I shouldn't hold them to the letter of the law when it comes to enforcing the statute. I'll run w/ the front plate, but it's going to be as absolutely hidden from view as allowed by law, that's all I'm trying to establish. Thank you again LEO's for your assistance.
Last edited by Vettin08; 04-26-2008 at 10:55 PM.
04-26-2008, 10:52 PM
#29
Racer
Try this!
Cut this out and carry it in your wallet; if stopped, just call officer's attention to subsection f.
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
(f) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to Corvettes
Seriously, if your front plate is obscured in any manner, you can be cited. I choose not to run a front plate, and in two years while I have been stopped several times and cited for speeding, I have never received more than a verbal warning about the missing front plate.
502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR
REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the
person operates on a public highway during a registration period a
passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two
license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have
been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a passenger car or
commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license
plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes
that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a
public highway during a registration period a road tractor,
motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license
plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the
department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the
period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer
operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.
(f) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to Corvettes
Seriously, if your front plate is obscured in any manner, you can be cited. I choose not to run a front plate, and in two years while I have been stopped several times and cited for speeding, I have never received more than a verbal warning about the missing front plate.
04-26-2008, 10:53 PM
#30
Why are you bothering? This regulation is not enforced in Texas. Well over 15% of car and TRUCKS do not have front plates. It's closer to 20% for cars alone, including Saturns and Neons. I think most of these front plate posts are started by vendors trying sell their wares.
04-26-2008, 10:59 PM
#31
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Read the above, I've been nailed twice in the last 5 years, both times by DPS. And I'll be making more of the runs I got tagged on in the future, so I want to comply w/ this and not have to worry about checking my mirrors every time I pass a DPS officer on the road.
04-26-2008, 11:01 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Member Since: May 2005
Location: Frisco TX
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I've been tagged twice by DPS in 5 years
What is a registration insignia? Our plates are clean, no stickers go on them. We have an annual "tag" sticker that goes in our windsheilds, it has nothing to do w/ the plates themselves.
Nowhere in your quoted section does it say that the front plate can't be obscured simply by it's mounting location. Example, you get pulled over, LEO can't give you a ticket for no front plate, nor can he give you a ticket for anything attached or added to the plate that is obscuring it. I'm trying to find the actual statute that says you have to mount your plate so that the thing is fully viewable and unobscured. I'm not saying it's not there, I just haven't found it yet, and was hoping a LEO could give me the actual statute. And if it turns out none exists, how would you get a ticket for it?
What is a registration insignia? Our plates are clean, no stickers go on them. We have an annual "tag" sticker that goes in our windsheilds, it has nothing to do w/ the plates themselves.
Nowhere in your quoted section does it say that the front plate can't be obscured simply by it's mounting location. Example, you get pulled over, LEO can't give you a ticket for no front plate, nor can he give you a ticket for anything attached or added to the plate that is obscuring it. I'm trying to find the actual statute that says you have to mount your plate so that the thing is fully viewable and unobscured. I'm not saying it's not there, I just haven't found it yet, and was hoping a LEO could give me the actual statute. And if it turns out none exists, how would you get a ticket for it?
As far as your comment about "Example, you get pulled over, LEO can't give you a ticket for no front plate" the code clearly states that if two license plates are not displayed at the front and rear of the vehicle that are assigned by the state and valid, you are in violation of the code.
Last edited by matsarge; 04-27-2008 at 12:56 AM.
04-26-2008, 11:01 PM
#33
Safety Car
Thread Starter
04-26-2008, 11:09 PM
#34
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: Gulf Coast Republic of Texas
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1 plate
FWIW I have only used 1 plate in Texas since 1992. I have NEVER been Stopped. A Friend has the hidden folding mount from RPI and it has never been displayed & No Tickeys.
04-26-2008, 11:16 PM
#35
Read the above, I've been nailed twice in the last 5 years, both times by DPS. And I'll be making more of the runs I got tagged on in the future, so I want to comply w/ this and not have to worry about checking my mirrors every time I pass a DPS officer on the road.
You sure have BAD luck then... I've never had one single problem and have owned two Corvettes with no front plate since '01.
04-26-2008, 11:16 PM
#36
Safety Car
Thread Starter
04-26-2008, 11:18 PM
#37
Remember, the code means what LEO, courts, etc. interpret what it means, what you think it it means doesn't amount to 2 cents when you're pulled over on the side of the road by a LEO that has a different interpretation then you. Basically, it is interpreted by the guys who write tickets and the court that enforce the fines that if they can't plainly see the plate and quickly determine where the plate is from and what your license plate number is, they can pull you over and ticket you for it. Now if it happen it you and you think the law is BS, get a lawyer to fight and see if you can get a court to agree with you. Texas plates are clean now, but this code was written during a time when registration stickers where still put on the plates, I think the change to the windshield version started in the late 90's-early 2000's.
As far as your comment about "Example, you get pulled over, LEO can't give you a ticket for no front plate" the code clearly states that if two license plates are not displayed at the front and rear of the vehicle that are assigned by the state and valid, you are in violation of the code.
As far as your comment about "Example, you get pulled over, LEO can't give you a ticket for no front plate" the code clearly states that if two license plates are not displayed at the front and rear of the vehicle that are assigned by the state and valid, you are in violation of the code.
04-26-2008, 11:35 PM
#38
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Big Bend Country, TX
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I'm using it and I've already had two troopers actually thank me for taking the time to mount the front plate.
04-26-2008, 11:55 PM
#39
I'm getting ready to move to Texas. This is an interesting thread. When I used to live in Texas I had an old, jalopy pickup truck that I never washed. It was YOU-Ell-Gee-y! ULGY. I never had a front plate on it but kept the front plate under the seat. Never stopped. I imagine a Vette may be different. I'm going to get the hide-away or TopFlight thing-ga-ma-do as soon as either one drops the price a little. What cha wanna bet I'll never get one?
04-27-2008, 05:56 AM
#40
Racer
Here's the actual quote...
§ 502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED
LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person
attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or
registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;
(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor
vehicle law other than by the department;
(3) is assigned for a registration period other than
the registration period in effect;
(4) is fictitious;
(5) has blurring or reflective matter that
significantly impairs the readability of the name of the state in
which the vehicle is registered or the letters or numbers of the
license plate number at any time;
(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker,
decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and
that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the name of the state in which the
vehicle is registered; or
(7) has a coating, covering, protective material, or
other apparatus that:
(A) distorts angular visibility or
detectability;
(B) alters or obscures one-half or more of the
name of the state in which the vehicle is registered; or
(C) alters or obscures the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the color of the plate.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under
Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more
than $200, unless it is shown at the trial of the offense that the
owner knowingly altered or made illegible the letters, numbers, and
other identification marks, in which case the offense is a Class B
misdemeanor.
(c) to (e) Repealed by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, §
30.66, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.
The only thing that I think they could get you with would be the 7-A,B,C stuff. And even with those, the wording is such that is says that the plate has a coating (no), covering (no), protective material (no), or other aparatus. That's the key, I don't believe that simply mounting the plate is the same thing as the plate "having an aparatus" that affects the visibility of the plate. As far as I can tell, if you mount the plate clean, w/ no attachments or coverings, or protective materials, that it doesn't say anywhere that the plate, by itself, has to be completely visible.
To me, this would seem to be more legal than throwing it up on your dash, where it lays at an amost 90 degree angle, w/ a windshield between the LEO and the plate to obscure the plate w/ its reflections.
Curiously, there is language in the same section that says you CAN obscure your plate w/ a trailer hitch, wheelchair lift, or bike rack.
This was just an exercise in legaleze. I understand the intent is to have the plate mounted and visible from the front, but the way it's written, it doesn't specifically say that. It DOES say you can't put anything on it that obscures it, but it doesn't say that you can't mount it in a way that it's not partially obscured.
In any event, thanks for the legal interpretation LEOs. I figure theres a chance I could get out of the ticket, but I'll just do the Top Flight.
§ 502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED
LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person
attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or
registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;
(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor
vehicle law other than by the department;
(3) is assigned for a registration period other than
the registration period in effect;
(4) is fictitious;
(5) has blurring or reflective matter that
significantly impairs the readability of the name of the state in
which the vehicle is registered or the letters or numbers of the
license plate number at any time;
(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker,
decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and
that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the name of the state in which the
vehicle is registered; or
(7) has a coating, covering, protective material, or
other apparatus that:
(A) distorts angular visibility or
detectability;
(B) alters or obscures one-half or more of the
name of the state in which the vehicle is registered; or
(C) alters or obscures the letters or numbers of
the license plate number or the color of the plate.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under
Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more
than $200, unless it is shown at the trial of the offense that the
owner knowingly altered or made illegible the letters, numbers, and
other identification marks, in which case the offense is a Class B
misdemeanor.
(c) to (e) Repealed by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, §
30.66, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.
The only thing that I think they could get you with would be the 7-A,B,C stuff. And even with those, the wording is such that is says that the plate has a coating (no), covering (no), protective material (no), or other aparatus. That's the key, I don't believe that simply mounting the plate is the same thing as the plate "having an aparatus" that affects the visibility of the plate. As far as I can tell, if you mount the plate clean, w/ no attachments or coverings, or protective materials, that it doesn't say anywhere that the plate, by itself, has to be completely visible.
To me, this would seem to be more legal than throwing it up on your dash, where it lays at an amost 90 degree angle, w/ a windshield between the LEO and the plate to obscure the plate w/ its reflections.
Curiously, there is language in the same section that says you CAN obscure your plate w/ a trailer hitch, wheelchair lift, or bike rack.
This was just an exercise in legaleze. I understand the intent is to have the plate mounted and visible from the front, but the way it's written, it doesn't specifically say that. It DOES say you can't put anything on it that obscures it, but it doesn't say that you can't mount it in a way that it's not partially obscured.
In any event, thanks for the legal interpretation LEOs. I figure theres a chance I could get out of the ticket, but I'll just do the Top Flight.
Making up a BS excuse usually doesn't work either...the truth does. Officers here BS every day all day long...they rarely hear the truth. When we do hear the truth that makes sense, were so shocked that those people get breaks and respect.