charliek

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My thanks to Gary on my 2011 LS3

I think it would be cool if a LS3 Wixom team picture with names tagged could be posted so we could put name with face.

LBear

Luckily it wasn't built by this guy:





All kidding aside, with the NON-MANUAL/wet sump versions of the LS3, they are also "hand-built" but by numerous GM employees (5 or 6) vs. just one of the manual/dry sump LS3, correct? In other words, the LS3 is NOT an automated/robot assembled engine. They are all hand built, right?

eaglei

Gary says you're very welcome, sorry if he gave you too much power.

I mentioned your team picture suggestion to our plant manager. He says hold on a little longer - he's trying to get a photo shoot lined up for a new poster. If that doesn't pan out, maybe we'll do an informal team picture.

Keep pushing - we had posters before - we can have them again.

By the way - some of the Wixom PBC engine builders will be at the Motor city Corvette Concours this Saturday. This may be a chance to meet your engine builder - and to see many fine Corvettes. Here's a link for more info:

http://www.lesstanford.com/motorcitycorvetteconcourse

eaglei

I'm not an expert on the standard LS3 builds - but I've asked around and consensus is that the wet sump LS3 for Vettes is built on a normal production line at the GM plant in St. Catherines Ontario. Not sure how many people are involved, probably 50+. My guess is that the assembly is highly automated. That's not necessarily a bad thing (my 96 GMC truck has a 5.7 Vortec with 200k miles and no problems).

Sorry I can't give you more details - I'm sure there must be someone on this forum with more info.

My only experience with a traditional engine assembly line was the few days I worked on the Olds Rocket V 8 line. That line ran close to 300 engines per hour - and had a pretty good reputation for quality. I know I was very busy keeping up.

Slimpikins5

I was at the dealer the other day getting my oil changed (first free change of 10 qts. Mobil 1). I was chatting with the tech who is a specialist on Corvettes and watching him work the car. He told me the Wixom LS3's are quite special engines, much different than the standard LS3's. He would not go into details, he just smiled at me and said to believe him, they are very special. That was a nice thing to hear

He also checked out the low frequency distortion in my drivers door speaker and said it needed to be replaced and I am going in next week to get the new one installed. I also noticed the new Goodyear run flat tires on the 2011 with the modified tread pattern. Anyone have any experience with these tires as of yet? Are they quieter than the super car GY's on the 2010's? I think I'll go Michelin on my first tire change out; I hear good things on the them.

LBear

I remember reading that the whole "hand built LS3" having more "power" or being "better built", etc., is just a wives tale. These urban legends have been around on other engines since the 60's. It goes hand in hand with the whole "car being built on a Friday" tale which is still around.

GM is notorious for "limited editions" and "special editions" and for other gimmick driven marketing. I believe this is one of them.

If you dyno'd a hand built vs. assembly line LS3, I bet they would read identical in HP #'s. The one advantage that the hand built does have is that it has a forged steel crank.

More "hand built" LS7's have blown up than non hand built LS3's have. There was the run from 2006-2007 where LS7's seen a lot of failures. Ironically, the failure rate of hand built LS engines is higher than non hand built.

GM is now offering in 2011 as a $6k option for the buyer of the C6 to help build his/her own engine. You help someone at Bowling Green to assemble your engine and GM charges you $6k. That's GM for you..

LBear

The 350 Olds was a strong runner, but the 455 Olds was horrible. The rod/stroke ratio on that engine was really bad. Plus it only had a 2 Bolt main on a cast crank.

Every stock 455 I have seen did not last long. Spun main bearings and even rod bearing was common. The crank would actually flex under load. It wasn't an assembly line issue, because the W-30 was a "hand built and blueprinted" engine. It was an engineering issue. Just overall bad engineering on the 455.

Guys who build the 455's install billet main girdles on the bottom ends in order to keep them from falling apart. The girdle ties the whole bottom end together. VERY expensive as you have to clearance the block, drill and tap the block and custom fit each girdle. Even then, Chevy has a superior design with its 6 bolt mains with splayed mains.

The 455 mad tons of torque but at what expense? Carrying a shovel in your trunk so when it exploded you can shovel the parts off of the road...

Slimpikins5

2 Bolt 327 Vettes from 1968 were stronger than 4 bolt 69 up 350 vettes. It's not about how many bolts they used, it's in the castings.

As far as hand built LS3's go, check the real life dyno numbers; they are turning out 467 RWHP....

LBear

Well, that is an argument for another thread. The amount of "bolts" or clamping force on the main caps is vital. A 2 bolt main on a 455 causes the caps to move/stretch, thereby wiping out the main bearings, causing an engine failure.



The LS3 is rated at 436HP (npp) at the crank. You are telling me that a "hand built" LS3 is putting out 467 RWHP??

I will add that one to my list of wives tales of the LS3.

eaglei

Regarding the previous post:

I don't know of any hand built LS6 engines - but we have built a lot of LS7's for Z06's.

As far as failure rates go, I don't know how you can have any certainty without seeing actual numbers. I do know that many of the LS7 failures were on engines that were modified from stock. And some of the individual failures got a lot of coverage on the forum.

I've asked some of our engineers about LS7 failure rates - and I've been told our failure rate is very low. But again, without the numbers it's hard to say for sure.

One thing I can say for sure is that our Wixom hand built engines are built, inspected and tested very carefully. We know we have to keep our customers happy to keep our plant open. And no one would want to put their name on an engine unless they thought it was damn good!

Cheers and thanks to our great customers. Come on in for a tour!

LBear

I do appreciate your hard work and pride. I do wish GM quality control would improve at Bowling Green. I have 2 "fish eyes" on my paint (dirt in paint when sprayed), along with a paint drip on the bottom door area.

I can walk into a GM dealer. Pick 5 random brand new C6's and spot numerous flaws on the car. Some are worse than others, but they all have QC issues. Someone making $55 an hour could not spot these issues before the car went out the door? Yet, me, a random Joe can spot them walking into a dealership.

Even the ZR1. I spotted overspray on a $110K+ car. GM's flagship.

I've just come to expect that from my C6. It will have issues, I will have to take it in for warranty work, it will develop an oil leak, it's a GM, so I expect it. Hand built or not, it is a roll of the dice.

eaglei

Well sir, I do appreciate your business. I just wish you didn't have to pinch your nose when buying a C6. You obviously have a very critical eye - as many true enthusiasts do.

Regarding GM employee compensation - I hope you realize hourly employees do not make $55 per hour on their paychecks. Maybe that is total cost with benefits. Fact is that many new employees are making $14 per hour + benefits. I realize (and am thankful) that our benefits are good by today's standards. There are many people that work hard for less money - and there are many people that earn more too!

GSRANDY

The fit and finish as well as the Torch Red paint is flawless on my 2010 GS and believe me I'm extremely particular, if it wasn't perfect I would let it be known....................

Jbal

Just pleased my 2010 GS LS3 motor was hand built-really, nothing to add.
Take Care All!

LBear

Yes, $55 per/hour includes benefits. I don't have a problem with a company paying someone that money, what I have a problem with is when that money is tax payer money. Also, it breeds an "entitlement" sentiment among workers.

That is a debate for another thread.

My point was that the QC on the C6 is OK. Not the best, not the worse, just OK. For a car pushing $70k MSRP, that is not acceptable in my book. Neither should it be for GM.

But I do thank you for your hard work and pride in the C6. Hopefully, the non "hand built" LS3's don't get the RAW DEAL simply because they are assembled by many instead of one. If they are, then GM needs to get out of the car making business.

redzone

You not only drank the Kool-aid....sounds like you mixed & stirred it too.

redzone

Impossible....the panels are painted individually, seperate from the car. Not saying you're lying,but what you saw was not overspray.

nypearson

Not too many jobs or careers out there that can offer this kind of satisfaction, it must truly be a pleasure to go to work everyday.

z06bud

Thanks to Ron Hein for a great build

VetteMark

True or False? Is the Dry Sump missing in the GS Convertible??