GrampZ

Since GM/Corvette Engineering obviously pays attention to this forum, they know LOTS of us track our Z's; they know some of us are regularly getting booted out of the dragstrip; and they know some of us could REALLY use a "cage" for all the HPDE's we are doing at the road course.

So will the SS have some kind of "intregral" roll cage, or at least roll bar? Maybe factory attach points for a cage/bar/harness kit available from Chevy separately??

What do y'all think??
Limp1?
Buehler?
Anyone?

2KZ28CAM

Great point, GrampZ. Just as the CAGS defeated the mileage sanctions, some sort of provision for a cage to defeat the old-school NHRA sanctions would be a perfect addition.

KretzJ

On paper it's an excellent idea. I don't know about the added weight, however, nor the complexity required to do a cage on the existing Corvette assembly line. The extra weight would have to be included during GM's formal mileage testing and that might not be such a great idea.

GM could "outsource" the cage work... take finished vehicles off-site to have a cage put it... but that seems time-consuming and expensive as well.

Heck, at the very least could they weld exposed contact / anchor points to the frame so the "do-it-yourself" guys will at least have an easier time of it?

-jk

Dolph

One word. Liability. It will never happen period. End of discussion.

Gohard777

That would be nice, haven't heard of anything out there.......

KretzJ

Thanks for the period at the end of the sentence Dolph, but you won't mind if we speculate a little more... beyond your declaration of the "end of discussion", right?

-jk

Dolph

NO. End OF DISCUSSION.

2KZ28CAM

Are you referring to an INCLUDED cage, with the car, out of the dealer? Or available as GM performance parts add-ons? If so -- than perhaps.

BUT -- if it includes undefined mount points on the frame, at undocumented locations, that ~might~ perhaps allow someone with some foresight to mount a cage -- that just happens to fit the mounting points -- and if said cage were enough to satisfy NHRA regs -- without gutting or blemishing the interior too badly -- well, what say you then?

Never say never. Unless there's a documented reason. Granted, it might be easier to get the NHRA to ease the regs than to find undocumented mounting point on the frame, but I'm just making a point.

GrampZ

Dolph, JK's point is well taken. (If you are in the liability business, as you conclusory statements suggest, you should recognize that language.) This is a discussion forum. Not a conclusion forum.

FOR OUR MODERATORS, THESE ARE PERSONAL OPINIONS, NOT LEGAL OPINIONS:

My original post suggested a couple queries, for discussion. I would suggest that to say flat out, "no" because of "liability," is bit short sighted - and certainly doesn't inform our discussion much. Here's why:

1. Will the SS have some kind of integral cage?

The car has to meet all applicable federal crashworthiness standards and, in GM's legal counsel's opinion, will have to weather all markets' products liability laws in the event of personal injury or death. I suspect that part of the basis for your opinion is that such an integral cage would invite lawsuits based in part on the theory that the design invited racing. Or even, "gee, GM, you invited us to do this extremely dangerous thing, racing, and took some steps to make it safe, but fell short." (If there's more to your thoughts I invite you, as JK did, to share.) But the car already invites us to race. It's in the owner's manual. (Would you like me to post up the relevant sections?)

The more compelling reason why there probably won't be a new integral "cage" in this old platform is cost. It would be extremely expensive to engineer, build, test, manufacture, etc.

2. Will Chevy offer some aftermarket cage/ bar?

Why not? Chevy has long offered "off highway" parts you can put on/in your vette/camaro etc., to get race car performance. There used to be (is there still?) a "Chevy Power Book" catalogue of parts used by racers. Ford offers parts made specifically for the '03/'04 Cobra's that give the car 600+ bhp. Mopar has the "Direct Connection." For some cars, having lots of race parts available helps boost sales, not just direct but also as a byproduct of the "marketing/advertising" effect of all the shade tree and sponsored racers out there on Sunday.

3. Will the SS have, perhaps, attach points for a cage/bar?

Probably the same answer as No. 1.

The point of the post was to draw more opinions and views than just these. Lots of folks here have experience as engineers, racers, or in auto manufacturing.

Dolph

Thank you. End of Discussion. The "counsel" will never let it happen.

Dolph

Holman, 44, was in a flag stand at a racing event. He was killed when a race car went out of control and hit the stand. He had been a turnpike employee earning about $38,000 annually. His medical expenses totaled approximately $1,500. He is survived by his wife, two adult children, and parents.

Holman's wife filed suit against the driver, the owner and operator of the race track, and the race promoters. Plaintiff alleged that the race car had a mechanical failure that compromised the steering mechanism.

The owner and operator of the race track and the race promoters paid $450,000 in settlement of the claims against them. A jury awarded plaintiff about $2.1 million in a lawsuit against the driver, including $250,000 for emotional distress.

Dolph

http://blogs.mediapost.com/tv_watch/?p=611

Dolph

Gm will never open the door!!!

2KZ28CAM

So, if I crash my car when sunlight blinds my eyes through an intersection, can I litigate against GM for making too-clear of a windshield?

A sad day, indeed. Reality or not.

Time to go play some internet poker and quit being bummed out.

Dolph

I bet you could probably sue the Roman Catholic Church. God basically is the owner of the church and he made the sun too bright.
Now go find a good attorney. I get the finders fee!!!!!

2KZ28CAM

BTW, I'm still bummed.

you made several good points, but its the nature of discussion to offer counter-points. Cheers.

LTC Z06

A roll cage would surprise me more than the intell of the C7 being rear mid-engined did.

ajderzie

Porsche 911 GT3 Cup already has a factory 4 pt. roll bar. I'm sorry but I don't see how the addition of a bar or cage (safety equipment) is any more of a liability than 650 hp.

torquetube

GM takes on huge liability by building Corvettes (or indeed any car) at all. They are powerful street cars that have to meet thousands of regulatory standards.

Any factory cage should be sanctioned by a road-racing organization, and such cages inevitably would block visibility and present a safety problem for unhelmeted & un-5-point-harnessed drivers.

I think a factory cage is out simply because the car couldn't meet regulatory and/or corporate safety standards with it installed.

GrampZ

Dolph, the story you posted, though compelling, has nothing to do with original equipment on a street car that somehow caused injury - either by inducing the owner/operator to engage in conduct (like racing) that would not have taken place in the absence of that equipment, or by failing to function properly. Your story involved "a race car," not a street car like the SS. The story didn't say anything about allegations against the manufacturer, much less whether they paid anything.

Your link to the blog, similarly, was about illegal races; not equipment that somehow induced legal racing, or equipment that failed to function properly.

The simplest way to view this scenario (factory "integral cage," attach points, or GM supplied kit for the SS) is that any such equipment won't induce racing any more than the SS will without it - like I said, the Z06 owner's manual already gives instructions for racing. Likewise, any such "cage equipment" won't induce illegal racing anymore than an SS without that equipment - in fact, it arguably invites safer high performance operation.

Liability would not be the reason for GM to not include a cage/bar into the design. R&D and manufacturing cost would. But since GM obviously knows that the target customer for the Z06, and more so the SS, is often serious about HPDE's and drag racing at sanctioned facilities (which give Z06's the boot), it's a fair question to wonder on this forum (and thereby request to GM) whether GM will make some provisions for this type of equipment.

It's also fair to invite comment from folks like Limp1 and NemesisC5 - who obviously know more than you and I, and just might be willing to share.

Maybe in your next post you could have a little more discussion.