[ZR1] Has anyone done the math on curb weight?
12-28-2007, 10:22 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Has anyone done the math on curb weight?
The articles that have come out about the ZR1 suggest a curb weight of 3350 lbs, which is heavier than the current Z06 by 200+ pounds.
Has anyone done the math to see if this would be accurate?
A simple add / delete list and the associated weights would give us a number. We know that the engine is obviously completely different - so what does an LS3 with a supercharger and a bigger oilpan actually weigh vs. the LS7? How much weight is saved / added with: the CF roof and body parts? Carbon ceramic brakes? Magnetic suspension? Beefier transmission? the engine?
Has anyone done the math to see if this would be accurate?
A simple add / delete list and the associated weights would give us a number. We know that the engine is obviously completely different - so what does an LS3 with a supercharger and a bigger oilpan actually weigh vs. the LS7? How much weight is saved / added with: the CF roof and body parts? Carbon ceramic brakes? Magnetic suspension? Beefier transmission? the engine?
12-28-2007, 10:53 AM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
There is a long laundry list of things - I just have a hard time believing that the net difference in weight is more than 200 pounds over the Z, since weight savings (evidenced by the use of CF) was a priority.
Does the engine, with SC and intercoolers, etc, etc weigh 300+ lbs more than the LS7?? (assuming they saved 100lbs using CF parts)
Does the engine, with SC and intercoolers, etc, etc weigh 300+ lbs more than the LS7?? (assuming they saved 100lbs using CF parts)
12-28-2007, 11:26 AM
#4
Safety Car
There is a long laundry list of things - I just have a hard time believing that the net difference in weight is more than 200 pounds over the Z, since weight savings (evidenced by the use of CF) was a priority.
Does the engine, with SC and intercoolers, etc, etc weigh 300+ lbs more than the LS7?? (assuming they saved 100lbs using CF parts)
Does the engine, with SC and intercoolers, etc, etc weigh 300+ lbs more than the LS7?? (assuming they saved 100lbs using CF parts)
Last edited by ZL-1; 12-28-2007 at 11:31 AM.
12-28-2007, 11:58 AM
#5
Team Owner
I did a little digging to estimate what the S/C might weight. A 1997 Mercedes C230 has a curb weight of 3195 lbs. The identical car except for the addition of a S/C, a 1999 C230 Kompressor, has a curb weight of 3250 lbs. A gain of 56% lbs. Ford Motorsports offers a S/C upgrade for the Mustang(from 500 hp to 605hp) which is a Eaton TVS 2.3L S/C like what is used on the Zr1. The S/C and cold air intake weights 56 lbs.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
Last edited by JoesC5; 12-28-2007 at 12:03 PM.
12-28-2007, 03:54 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
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I did a little digging to estimate what the S/C might weight. A 1997 Mercedes C230 has a curb weight of 3195 lbs. The identical car except for the addition of a S/C, a 1999 C230 Kompressor, has a curb weight of 3250 lbs. A gain of 56% lbs. Ford Motorsports offers a S/C upgrade for the Mustang(from 500 hp to 605hp) which is a Eaton TVS 2.3L S/C like what is used on the Zr1. The S/C and cold air intake weights 56 lbs.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
The I thought I read the ls9 has forged pistons, that should add to the weight. No?
12-28-2007, 05:29 PM
#7
Drifting
I started this in a post a few days ago. To me the numbers don't add up.
Supercharger + related parts = + 100#
Carbon Ceramic Brakes = 15# per corner = - 60LBS
Extra CF bits = -20LBS (Guess)
Larger wheels tires (although the new wheels are forged) = 5# per corner???? = + 20 #
The latest info says 52 / 48 weight bias with a trunk mounted battery I am a bit puzzled where the extra weight in the nose came from?? Latest info says +150-200#
Supercharger + related parts = + 100#
Carbon Ceramic Brakes = 15# per corner = - 60LBS
Extra CF bits = -20LBS (Guess)
Larger wheels tires (although the new wheels are forged) = 5# per corner???? = + 20 #
The latest info says 52 / 48 weight bias with a trunk mounted battery I am a bit puzzled where the extra weight in the nose came from?? Latest info says +150-200#
12-28-2007, 05:29 PM
#8
Drifting
12-29-2007, 11:06 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
This is a good question.........perhaps it was needed to add structural integrity pieces to compensate for an increase in HP and TQ, this is what kept the C4 ZR1 from reaching it's original intended weight goal.
More than I would have come up with 
.............but you forgot the magnetic suspension......there's another computer modual with that, right? What does it weigh? what about different shock weights.
Anyone know what the weight difference is for this option on a C6 coupe?
Originally Posted by JoesC5
I did a little digging to estimate what the S/C might weight. A 1997 Mercedes C230 has a curb weight of 3195 lbs. The identical car except for the addition of a S/C, a 1999 C230 Kompressor, has a curb weight of 3250 lbs. A gain of 56% lbs. Ford Motorsports offers a S/C upgrade for the Mustang(from 500 hp to 605hp) which is a Eaton TVS 2.3L S/C like what is used on the Zr1. The S/C and cold air intake weights 56 lbs.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
I did a little digging to estimate what the S/C might weight. A 1997 Mercedes C230 has a curb weight of 3195 lbs. The identical car except for the addition of a S/C, a 1999 C230 Kompressor, has a curb weight of 3250 lbs. A gain of 56% lbs. Ford Motorsports offers a S/C upgrade for the Mustang(from 500 hp to 605hp) which is a Eaton TVS 2.3L S/C like what is used on the Zr1. The S/C and cold air intake weights 56 lbs.
The ZR1 S/C incorporates the intake manifold and the intercooler which I estimates increases the weight by 25 lbs. The ZR1 coolant, ~1 gallon adds another 8 lbs and I estimate the hoses, water pump and coolant to air heat exchanger weights 15 lbs. So, I come up with an estimate of 104 lbs weight increase.
On the C5 Z16, the carbon fiber hood cut the weight 17 lbs. Since the "window is polycarbonate, which is very light, I would estimate the ZR1 carbon fiber hood saves 16 lbs. The Roof panel and the roof hoop in carbon fiber should save about 8 lbs over the SMC. I come up with an estimate of 24 lbs saved by using CF. I would estimate the carbon fiber running boards would add 10 lbs for a net savings of 14 lbs. Subtract that from the S/C weight and I end up with a 90 lb increase by the S/C addition.
I would think that the lighter brake rotors would offset the weight of the larger diameter wheels and the increased weight of the heavier halfshafts and torquetube/propshaft, and differential.
.............but you forgot the magnetic suspension......there's another computer modual with that, right? What does it weigh? what about different shock weights.Anyone know what the weight difference is for this option on a C6 coupe?
01-01-2008, 03:52 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
What stuff is optional on the Z06 or not available? I recall the C5 Z06 had a manual passenger seat to save weight. Curb weights from the manufacturer are base model curb weights, no optional equipment. Since the ZR1 will have more standard stuff than a Z06, that weight difference needs to be included as well. I.e. a C6 Z06 loaded with every option probably weighs more than the 3,132 lbs curb weight.
From a quick check of the ordering guide (2008 only, so no details on the ZR1), it looks like the following may be included in the ZR1's weight but not the Z06's:
- power passenger seat
- 6-disc CD changer
- power adjustable steering wheel with steering wheel controls
- memory seats
- luggage shade
- HomeLink
- "Enhanced Acoustic Package", no idea what that is or if it means more weight from more or heavier speakers
- heated seats ?
Then all the stuff like a blower, intercooler, coolant, more oil capacity, the magnetic shocks, and bigger wheels/tires. It would seem inevitable that the car would weigh more in spite of more carbon fiber.
I wonder how much a fully optioned Z06 weighs?
From a quick check of the ordering guide (2008 only, so no details on the ZR1), it looks like the following may be included in the ZR1's weight but not the Z06's:
- power passenger seat
- 6-disc CD changer
- power adjustable steering wheel with steering wheel controls
- memory seats
- luggage shade
- HomeLink
- "Enhanced Acoustic Package", no idea what that is or if it means more weight from more or heavier speakers
- heated seats ?
Then all the stuff like a blower, intercooler, coolant, more oil capacity, the magnetic shocks, and bigger wheels/tires. It would seem inevitable that the car would weigh more in spite of more carbon fiber.
I wonder how much a fully optioned Z06 weighs?
01-01-2008, 04:15 PM
#13
Drifting
What stuff is optional on the Z06 or not available? I recall the C5 Z06 had a manual passenger seat to save weight. Curb weights from the manufacturer are base model curb weights, no optional equipment. Since the ZR1 will have more standard stuff than a Z06, that weight difference needs to be included as well. I.e. a C6 Z06 loaded with every option probably weighs more than the 3,132 lbs curb weight.
From a quick check of the ordering guide (2008 only, so no details on the ZR1), it looks like the following may be included in the ZR1's weight but not the Z06's:
- power passenger seat
- 6-disc CD changer
- power adjustable steering wheel with steering wheel controls
- memory seats
- luggage shade
- HomeLink
- "Enhanced Acoustic Package", no idea what that is or if it means more weight from more or heavier speakers
- heated seats ?
Then all the stuff like a blower, intercooler, coolant, more oil capacity, the magnetic shocks, and bigger wheels/tires. It would seem inevitable that the car would weigh more in spite of more carbon fiber.
I wonder how much a fully optioned Z06 weighs?
From a quick check of the ordering guide (2008 only, so no details on the ZR1), it looks like the following may be included in the ZR1's weight but not the Z06's:
- power passenger seat
- 6-disc CD changer
- power adjustable steering wheel with steering wheel controls
- memory seats
- luggage shade
- HomeLink
- "Enhanced Acoustic Package", no idea what that is or if it means more weight from more or heavier speakers
- heated seats ?
Then all the stuff like a blower, intercooler, coolant, more oil capacity, the magnetic shocks, and bigger wheels/tires. It would seem inevitable that the car would weigh more in spite of more carbon fiber.
I wonder how much a fully optioned Z06 weighs?
my RF Z06 with the 2lz package weighed 3120lbs with 1/3 tank...i would imagine the 3lz with the new tranny too weigh close too 100 pounds more
01-01-2008, 05:01 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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GM may not be finished yet. Remember final horsepower numbers have not been stated. I expect power numbers to slightly increase (from 620hp, actually already hearing 635), but reducing weight any further is MUCH more expensive, although a slight reduction (from 3350lbs) may still be a possibility. It's obvious GM struggled with the weight & balance of the car, so I would not expect any talk of even slight weight reduction. The ZR1 as it stands is a true GT car and NOT a track car.
01-01-2008, 05:58 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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GM may not be finished yet. Remember final horsepower numbers have not been stated. I expect power numbers to slightly increase (from 620hp, actually already hearing 635), but reducing weight any further is MUCH more expensive, although a slight reduction (from 3350lbs) may still be a possibility. It's obvious GM struggled with the weight & balance of the car, so I would not expect any talk of even slight weight reduction. The ZR1 as it stands is a true GT car and NOT a track car.
AND GM usually rates their horsepower figures a little on the 'low'
side....bob.
01-01-2008, 06:17 PM
#16
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I read in one of the mags yesterday that the engine is 100lbs. heavier due to the changes...so, where do the other 100lbs. come from?
Of course I'm assuming that the estimated weight is close enough to reality.
It seems to me each of the mags has at least one piece of data different than the others...Automobile says 600+ horsepower, another says 625...and another states the weight as 150 pounds heavier than a Z06...
The truth will be known soon enough.
Of course I'm assuming that the estimated weight is close enough to reality.
It seems to me each of the mags has at least one piece of data different than the others...Automobile says 600+ horsepower, another says 625...and another states the weight as 150 pounds heavier than a Z06...
The truth will be known soon enough.
01-01-2008, 06:36 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
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01-02-2008, 01:56 AM
#18
Oh don't kid yourself, NemesisC5! How the heck could any $100K factory Corvette NOT be a track car?!!?!?!??!??!???
I want to see this thing turn the 'Ring faster than the GT-R, which I don't see selling anywhere near my area for the supposed $70,000.
You don't think these supposed "car guys" at GM that are making the ZR1 happen really want to read MT article saying that the GT-R makes "any Corvette look tame and crude," yet laps the Nurburgring faster than any production car ever made? All for $30K less than a ZR1? I want to see lap times with Ron Fellowes or Johnny O' Connell or another accomplished driver behind the wheel of a ZR1 with decent tires on it (not run flats). I sure hope those behind the ZR1 at GM care enough about track times to make the most powerful and expensive Vette ever capable of hanging with any comparable car available for less money. Otherwise, I think they are straying from the essence of Corvette. In my mind, "Corvette Racing" is a redundant two word phrase.
And I hope the final production car will be very close to 50/50 weight distribution. That will help with lap times.
I want to see this thing turn the 'Ring faster than the GT-R, which I don't see selling anywhere near my area for the supposed $70,000.
You don't think these supposed "car guys" at GM that are making the ZR1 happen really want to read MT article saying that the GT-R makes "any Corvette look tame and crude," yet laps the Nurburgring faster than any production car ever made? All for $30K less than a ZR1? I want to see lap times with Ron Fellowes or Johnny O' Connell or another accomplished driver behind the wheel of a ZR1 with decent tires on it (not run flats). I sure hope those behind the ZR1 at GM care enough about track times to make the most powerful and expensive Vette ever capable of hanging with any comparable car available for less money. Otherwise, I think they are straying from the essence of Corvette. In my mind, "Corvette Racing" is a redundant two word phrase.
And I hope the final production car will be very close to 50/50 weight distribution. That will help with lap times.
01-02-2008, 08:51 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by c5_4_me;1563428197[B
]Oh don't kid yourself, NemesisC5! How the heck could any $100K factory Corvette NOT be a track car?!!?!?!??!??!???[/B]
I want to see this thing turn the 'Ring faster than the GT-R, which I don't see selling anywhere near my area for the supposed $70,000.
You don't think these supposed "car guys" at GM that are making the ZR1 happen really want to read MT article saying that the GT-R makes "any Corvette look tame and crude," yet laps the Nurburgring faster than any production car ever made? All for $30K less than a ZR1? I want to see lap times with Ron Fellowes or Johnny O' Connell or another accomplished driver behind the wheel of a ZR1 with decent tires on it (not run flats). I sure hope those behind the ZR1 at GM care enough about track times to make the most powerful and expensive Vette ever capable of hanging with any comparable car available for less money. Otherwise, I think they are straying from the essence of Corvette. In my mind, "Corvette Racing" is a redundant two word phrase.
And I hope the final production car will be very close to 50/50 weight distribution. That will help with lap times.
I want to see this thing turn the 'Ring faster than the GT-R, which I don't see selling anywhere near my area for the supposed $70,000.
You don't think these supposed "car guys" at GM that are making the ZR1 happen really want to read MT article saying that the GT-R makes "any Corvette look tame and crude," yet laps the Nurburgring faster than any production car ever made? All for $30K less than a ZR1? I want to see lap times with Ron Fellowes or Johnny O' Connell or another accomplished driver behind the wheel of a ZR1 with decent tires on it (not run flats). I sure hope those behind the ZR1 at GM care enough about track times to make the most powerful and expensive Vette ever capable of hanging with any comparable car available for less money. Otherwise, I think they are straying from the essence of Corvette. In my mind, "Corvette Racing" is a redundant two word phrase.
And I hope the final production car will be very close to 50/50 weight distribution. That will help with lap times.
BTW, GM did say the ZR1 will outperform the Z06 on any track. That being said, we ALL KNOW that track times are important but the ZR1 has more to offer than just track times
01-02-2008, 08:57 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
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