[Z06] Clear Bras Installation Problems
03-23-2009, 12:29 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Clear Bras Installation Problems
Sorry for the rant, but:
In '06, I had Expel Brand clear bras done on my C5 and a Mercedes. The installer did a great job, with no problems whatsoever, except for some small bubbles on one headlight that he fixed.
For my new JSB '09 ZO6, I had another installer come Friday to install 3M Brand film for the partial hood, full bumper and front fog lights, partial fenders, mirrors, and the extended rocker panels kit.
I used this installer as I was told by a Porsche dealer that he is the best in the area, and can do the entire job in one day. My other installer took 3 days to do similar coverage. I told this new installer that the other jobs I had done were nearly flawless, and he said that he had no problem delivering the same quality.
I was doubtful that a job like this could be done in a day by one person, but after numerous assurances, I went ahead with it.
Unfortunately, my initial doubts were good, as the install job was terrible. He did it in my garage in 44 degree temperature as his heater was on the fritz, and this after showing up an hour and a 1/2 late...and then having to go to the Porsche dealership 8 miles away to get stuff he forgot. He started at 12:00 PM and ended at 9:00 PM. At around 2:30 PM, he also went to his home 15 miles away to get a different heater.
Looking at my hood, there were numerous dirt particals, stretch marks, pucker marks, and a number of crease lines in the middle of the film. The same was true of the fenders. The 3M film was also full of orange peel. I had him remove these, and asked him to return the next day so I could see the rest of the job in better light.
On Saturday, I saw that one mirror had stretch marks and the edge was buggered in a number of areas. The front bumper had the same issues as did the hood and fenders. The lower seam butting up the the spoiler had 8 inches where it was not tacked down properly. One of the rocker panels also had large water bubbles. I also saw where a piece of film was stuck in my headlight and had torn the rubber surrounding seal.
When the guy showed up, I patiently showed him what I had found, and he started giving me the typical "you're not showing me any respect" BS. I said to him that I was surprised by the way the job turned out. He said I was just being too nitpicky, and what did I expect. He also said about 6 times how he was the best in the area.
I told him to return to take it all off, and if this was the best he could do, then I would have to go back and have the other guy do it over.
Am I being too picky to expect the job be done with care, and not end up looking worse than stone chips?
In '06, I had Expel Brand clear bras done on my C5 and a Mercedes. The installer did a great job, with no problems whatsoever, except for some small bubbles on one headlight that he fixed.
For my new JSB '09 ZO6, I had another installer come Friday to install 3M Brand film for the partial hood, full bumper and front fog lights, partial fenders, mirrors, and the extended rocker panels kit.
I used this installer as I was told by a Porsche dealer that he is the best in the area, and can do the entire job in one day. My other installer took 3 days to do similar coverage. I told this new installer that the other jobs I had done were nearly flawless, and he said that he had no problem delivering the same quality.
I was doubtful that a job like this could be done in a day by one person, but after numerous assurances, I went ahead with it.
Unfortunately, my initial doubts were good, as the install job was terrible. He did it in my garage in 44 degree temperature as his heater was on the fritz, and this after showing up an hour and a 1/2 late...and then having to go to the Porsche dealership 8 miles away to get stuff he forgot. He started at 12:00 PM and ended at 9:00 PM. At around 2:30 PM, he also went to his home 15 miles away to get a different heater.
Looking at my hood, there were numerous dirt particals, stretch marks, pucker marks, and a number of crease lines in the middle of the film. The same was true of the fenders. The 3M film was also full of orange peel. I had him remove these, and asked him to return the next day so I could see the rest of the job in better light.
On Saturday, I saw that one mirror had stretch marks and the edge was buggered in a number of areas. The front bumper had the same issues as did the hood and fenders. The lower seam butting up the the spoiler had 8 inches where it was not tacked down properly. One of the rocker panels also had large water bubbles. I also saw where a piece of film was stuck in my headlight and had torn the rubber surrounding seal.
When the guy showed up, I patiently showed him what I had found, and he started giving me the typical "you're not showing me any respect" BS. I said to him that I was surprised by the way the job turned out. He said I was just being too nitpicky, and what did I expect. He also said about 6 times how he was the best in the area.
I told him to return to take it all off, and if this was the best he could do, then I would have to go back and have the other guy do it over.
Am I being too picky to expect the job be done with care, and not end up looking worse than stone chips?
03-23-2009, 06:05 AM
#2
Racer
You are not being picky. The film should be applied in a way that you can't notice it. Also, the install should only take about 5 hours. The guy probably never did an install on a C6, which is not easy with the way the front bumper is curved. I would have the job completed by someone who has experience with Corvettes and would suggest using VentureShield rather than 3M. The VentureShield is clear and doesn't have the orange peel look.
03-23-2009, 07:03 AM
#3
Drifting
Where are you in PA? There is a clearbra installer at Grabiak Chevrolet in New Alexandria, PA. He has done 3 of my Vettes and an HHR. I have been most satisfied.
03-23-2009, 07:52 AM
#4
There is no substitute for a great installer. You are NOT being to nit picky. Get the job done by the other guy, and give him all the time he wants. What's a few days compared to how long you will be stuck with a bad job?
Slow and steady wins the race.
Slow and steady wins the race.
03-23-2009, 08:19 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Coming from another installer you are in the right 100%. There should not be any dirt, stretch marks, or scuffs in the material. Corvettes are one of the toughest cars to do but with that said, I normally finish in about 4 hours for the install you mentioned... even in 40+ degree weather. It sounds like he didnt use enough soap in his slip solution... hence the work marks. He is also using 3M... way to much orange peel in the film and I do not recommend anyone use that film. Dirt under the film just shows poor prep work and lack of attention to detail.
I m not one to normally call people out on their work but in this situation I think you should let everyone know where you are at and who the installer was. That way other Corvette members do not get the same poor work... and bad attitude when the customer isnt happy. There are a lot of bad installers out there making the industry look bad. There is no way to weed them out unless their poor work is shared withe the rest of the community. I am going to Tennesse tomorrow to fix some work from another installer cutting the customers paint up. These guys need to find another industry to work in...
I m not one to normally call people out on their work but in this situation I think you should let everyone know where you are at and who the installer was. That way other Corvette members do not get the same poor work... and bad attitude when the customer isnt happy. There are a lot of bad installers out there making the industry look bad. There is no way to weed them out unless their poor work is shared withe the rest of the community. I am going to Tennesse tomorrow to fix some work from another installer cutting the customers paint up. These guys need to find another industry to work in...
03-23-2009, 10:00 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Yup, find a new installer. And my car is the hardest to do (black). There are a few imperfections, but nothing like what you describe. And my car was done in an afternoon with 2-3 guys working on it at any given moment.
If you look real close at this picture, you can see some marring from where stuff has hit it, but this is normal. And, yes, the 3M stuff has some orange peel. It's a trade-off. You can also almost pick out a seam just under the left fog light. Otherwise, you can't even tell its on the car, and I had everything done that you described and then some. I would use the Ventureshield next time; however, I am certainly not unhappy with the 3M stuff. It is definitely doing its job and protecting the paint.
If you look real close at this picture, you can see some marring from where stuff has hit it, but this is normal. And, yes, the 3M stuff has some orange peel. It's a trade-off. You can also almost pick out a seam just under the left fog light. Otherwise, you can't even tell its on the car, and I had everything done that you described and then some. I would use the Ventureshield next time; however, I am certainly not unhappy with the 3M stuff. It is definitely doing its job and protecting the paint.
03-23-2009, 11:04 AM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
The interesting thing is, this installer knew that my car was scheduled to go to the largest Corvette service shop this week that also sponsors the local Corvette club. He has been trying to have the shop offer his services. I'll let them see what the job looks like.
03-23-2009, 11:15 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Coming from another installer you are in the right 100%. There should not be any dirt, stretch marks, or scuffs in the material. Corvettes are one of the toughest cars to do but with that said, I normally finish in about 4 hours for the install you mentioned... even in 40+ degree weather. It sounds like he didnt use enough soap in his slip solution... hence the work marks. He is also using 3M... way to much orange peel in the film and I do not recommend anyone use that film. Dirt under the film just shows poor prep work and lack of attention to detail.
I m not one to normally call people out on their work but in this situation I think you should let everyone know where you are at and who the installer was. That way other Corvette members do not get the same poor work... and bad attitude when the customer isnt happy. There are a lot of bad installers out there making the industry look bad. There is no way to weed them out unless their poor work is shared withe the rest of the community. I am going to Tennesse tomorrow to fix some work from another installer cutting the customers paint up. These guys need to find another industry to work in...
I m not one to normally call people out on their work but in this situation I think you should let everyone know where you are at and who the installer was. That way other Corvette members do not get the same poor work... and bad attitude when the customer isnt happy. There are a lot of bad installers out there making the industry look bad. There is no way to weed them out unless their poor work is shared withe the rest of the community. I am going to Tennesse tomorrow to fix some work from another installer cutting the customers paint up. These guys need to find another industry to work in...
The problem that he created for himself, among other things, is that he kept repeating his facts, that this is the best possible job that can be done on a Corvette. He said this, even knowing that I had had my C5 done before with great satisfaction.
The only way I could respond, was that if this is the best he can do, then possibly he should not attempt to do installs on Corvettes. I actually said this in a way that was trying to be helpful, but I got the "you're not respecting me" once again!
03-23-2009, 01:33 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
have him use venture shield. it has life time warranty. there's a group of guys around here that go to the high end german/italian dealerships. they use 3M and it does not look good. I have the venture shield on the C6 coupe and Z06. perfect jobs
03-23-2009, 08:53 PM
#11
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio Texas
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Yup, find a new installer. And my car is the hardest to do (black). There are a few imperfections, but nothing like what you describe. And my car was done in an afternoon with 2-3 guys working on it at any given moment.
If you look real close at this picture, you can see some marring from where stuff has hit it, but this is normal. And, yes, the 3M stuff has some orange peel. It's a trade-off. You can also almost pick out a seam just under the left fog light. Otherwise, you can't even tell its on the car, and I had everything done that you described and then some. I would use the Ventureshield next time; however, I am certainly not unhappy with the 3M stuff. It is definitely doing its job and protecting the paint.
If you look real close at this picture, you can see some marring from where stuff has hit it, but this is normal. And, yes, the 3M stuff has some orange peel. It's a trade-off. You can also almost pick out a seam just under the left fog light. Otherwise, you can't even tell its on the car, and I had everything done that you described and then some. I would use the Ventureshield next time; however, I am certainly not unhappy with the 3M stuff. It is definitely doing its job and protecting the paint.
03-23-2009, 09:43 PM
#12
Racer
Member Since: Aug 2002
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That's sounds like bunch of BS, this guy's a scam artist. I had 3M on every car for the last 7 years or so and couldn't be any happier with the product, but it's all due to quality installation.
BTW, I personally prefer 3M since it has a protective layer of clear coat, Ventureshield doesn't. So in the log run, Ventureshield will start looking dull much sooner, especially if you drive/wash your car on regular basis. (I had small pieces of VS applied to the rocker panels, not only they're dull but also turned yellow) Also, 3M (according to my installer) is more difficult to apply (due to clear coat, etc), one of the reasons why some installers push Ventureshield over 3M. I did see two films side by side and yes, 3M does have slight orange peel but keeping the clear bra shiny is much more important.
BTW, I personally prefer 3M since it has a protective layer of clear coat, Ventureshield doesn't. So in the log run, Ventureshield will start looking dull much sooner, especially if you drive/wash your car on regular basis. (I had small pieces of VS applied to the rocker panels, not only they're dull but also turned yellow) Also, 3M (according to my installer) is more difficult to apply (due to clear coat, etc), one of the reasons why some installers push Ventureshield over 3M. I did see two films side by side and yes, 3M does have slight orange peel but keeping the clear bra shiny is much more important.
03-23-2009, 10:27 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
That's sounds like bunch of BS, this guy's a scam artist. I had 3M on every car for the last 7 years or so and couldn't be any happier with the product, but it's all due to quality installation.
BTW, I personally prefer 3M since it has a protective layer of clear coat, Ventureshield doesn't. So in the log run, Ventureshield will start looking dull much sooner, especially if you drive/wash your car on regular basis. (I had small pieces of VS applied to the rocker panels, not only they're dull but also turned yellow) Also, 3M (according to my installer) is more difficult to apply (due to clear coat, etc), one of the reasons why some installers push Ventureshield over 3M. I did see two films side by side and yes, 3M does have slight orange peel but keeping the clear bra shiny is much more important.
BTW, I personally prefer 3M since it has a protective layer of clear coat, Ventureshield doesn't. So in the log run, Ventureshield will start looking dull much sooner, especially if you drive/wash your car on regular basis. (I had small pieces of VS applied to the rocker panels, not only they're dull but also turned yellow) Also, 3M (according to my installer) is more difficult to apply (due to clear coat, etc), one of the reasons why some installers push Ventureshield over 3M. I did see two films side by side and yes, 3M does have slight orange peel but keeping the clear bra shiny is much more important.
VentureShield Ultra does have a top coat now... not sure what they are using exactly but it does not crack. It also does not yellow. The only time I have seen VS Ultra yellow was because the customers were using cheap wax on the film which yellowed over time. The only downside to VS Ultra is the cost. It costs more for the installer to buy... cutting down on the profit margin. With that being said I would rather have a nice looking, orange peel free install out there than one with a lot of orange peel. I also like the lifetime warranty of VS over 5 years for 3M. Of the two VS is hands down the better film.
ClearMask AR is the way to go though and is the best film I have seen/installed out of everything on the market. A little more durable than VS and just as clear/orange peel free. It also has a lifetime warrranty.
03-23-2009, 11:31 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
03-23-2009, 11:33 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
3M. I can see the orange peel on the mirrors. Same as mine. Unless this is a trick question because 3M bought Ventureshield...
But those who say it doesn't look good probably haven't seen it in person. I've seen on any number of expensive cars.
But those who say it doesn't look good probably haven't seen it in person. I've seen on any number of expensive cars.
03-23-2009, 11:53 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm still waiting for my installer to contact me regarding the installation job that needs to be re-done. I sent an email on Sunday morning and have not heard back from him as yet. Funny how he would contact me within a few hours each time before the install?
In case I don't hear back from him, how do I safely remove the 3M film from my car? I would imagine it will be harder to remove, the longer it stays on.
In case I don't hear back from him, how do I safely remove the 3M film from my car? I would imagine it will be harder to remove, the longer it stays on.
03-24-2009, 08:19 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
I'm still waiting for my installer to contact me regarding the installation job that needs to be re-done. I sent an email on Sunday morning and have not heard back from him as yet. Funny how he would contact me within a few hours each time before the install?
In case I don't hear back from him, how do I safely remove the 3M film from my car? I would imagine it will be harder to remove, the longer it stays on.
In case I don't hear back from him, how do I safely remove the 3M film from my car? I would imagine it will be harder to remove, the longer it stays on.
I do not recommend you removing it. If there is any damage he will not accept responsibility for it. It is very unlikely the paint will pull but its better to be safe than sorry. He also needs to be there in case there are any cuts in your paint. By his actions it wouldnt suprise me if he used a blade on your car. Hopefully you were there to watch the entire install. many of the poor installers will trim the film they cant get to lay down. If you pull it without him being there he will deny he did it.
I would keep trying to contact him... if no reply let him know that you plan on being very vocal about your issues with the dealership and everyone else you know. That will get his attention. Honestly he sounds like a really shady person to me and needs to find a new career. If you want, pm me his numer and I will give him a call. I may be able to talk to him and get him to do what is right.
Thom
03-24-2009, 10:22 AM
#19
Drifting
Thread Starter
I do not recommend you removing it. If there is any damage he will not accept responsibility for it. It is very unlikely the paint will pull but its better to be safe than sorry. He also needs to be there in case there are any cuts in your paint. By his actions it wouldnt suprise me if he used a blade on your car. Hopefully you were there to watch the entire install. many of the poor installers will trim the film they cant get to lay down. If you pull it without him being there he will deny he did it.
I would keep trying to contact him... if no reply let him know that you plan on being very vocal about your issues with the dealership and everyone else you know. That will get his attention. Honestly he sounds like a really shady person to me and needs to find a new career. If you want, pm me his numer and I will give him a call. I may be able to talk to him and get him to do what is right.
Thom
I would keep trying to contact him... if no reply let him know that you plan on being very vocal about your issues with the dealership and everyone else you know. That will get his attention. Honestly he sounds like a really shady person to me and needs to find a new career. If you want, pm me his numer and I will give him a call. I may be able to talk to him and get him to do what is right.
Thom
I have an appointment to take my car in today for a couple of small mods at the local Corvette service shop, and will swing by the Porsche dealership for them to also take a look at my car.
03-24-2009, 11:11 AM
#20
Racer
Member Since: Jul 2007
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Your vette deserves better than a average installation job. Make him come back and fix it or reach some kind of settlement with him, and have someone else with excellent references do the job right.
My 06 Z06 has 3M clear bra application for approx. 2 and half years, and you can't see the film until you get up on the vehicle. There are a few places where its not completely perfect, however not really evident without really looking close. The installer did a fantastic job, the car has 11,500 miles and the front end looks like new.
Good luck.
My 06 Z06 has 3M clear bra application for approx. 2 and half years, and you can't see the film until you get up on the vehicle. There are a few places where its not completely perfect, however not really evident without really looking close. The installer did a fantastic job, the car has 11,500 miles and the front end looks like new.
Good luck.