When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
I agree. Perfection is certainly not posiible. As a young buck apprentice, I was running an O.D. grinder. I was grinding a piece only 1/2" diameter, and nearly a foot long. I got it straight within .0001"! Not easy to do between centers. I told a journeyman a few feet away that I just ground a perfect piece! He said bring it over here, I'll find something wrong with it. He did! He found that .0001" variance. I was ticked at him for a bit. But got over it within a few minutes. But I learned. The fact that it happened over 45 years ago, and I remember it like yesterday, tells you how important it was to me.
I've done so much reading into the LS7 valve drop that I'm overwhelmed. At this point, I'm doing the "fix" purely for peace of mind. Two weeks ago, the odometer hit 20k, and I'd like to say that I'll own the car for another 20k miles (trouble-free miles, I hope). I know this forum has a wealth of knowledge, so I'd really like to hear your opinions.
Background:
2008 C6Z with 20k miles.
Car is not tracked.
On occasion, I may take it to redline through 2nd gear. Aside from that, I drive the car as if it were a Prius.
At some point down the line, I'd like to put in a mild cam. Something like the AHP 116 or 112 cam. But for now, let's just say the heads are priority #1, and cam swap will happen next year.
I'd be happy if the car made 530 to the tire when all said and done. 550 would be nice, too.
In my mind, the main priority is reliability, followed by overall value and, finally (for now), HP increase.
These are the options I've considered"
1) Pull my heads, send them out the AHP. Downtime would be about 6 weeks if I were to choose to have my heads ported. Reuse my springs and intake valves. Ferrea SS hollow exhaust vales. Cost is roughly $2,850 if I go this route, and know that I would have to upgrade the springs if/when I decide to do the cam swap.
2) Order a set of Trick Flow Gen X260 heads (assembled) and run those. Downtime is minimal as the heads are in-stock and ready to ship. Cost is roughly $3,000 if I go this route. However, I'm not entirely thrilled with the thought of running such heavy valves, even if the springs can handle it. When I spoke to Trickflow, they suggested their 370lb spring option. Truthfully, I have no clue what that means, or if I can re-use these springs if/when I do the cam swap. Link to heads: https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-...01#replacement
3) Order a set of bare Trick Flow GenX 260 heads. My idea would be to swap over my springs to these heads, have my stock intake valves polished and treated, and go with Ferrea exhaust valves. Again, knowing I would have to upgrade the springs if/when I do a cam swap. This option may not even be viable, as I assume I can't swap things over without needing some type of machining. Also, this is uncharted territory for me in terms of builds. I can wrench, but when you start talking about stuff like coil bind, then you've completely lost me. I assume the cost would be over $3,200 for materials + any machining that may be required.
In your opinion, which option may best suit my needs/goals? Is there anything that I'm missing or haven't considered?
I'm sure there are many forum members who live and breathe LS engines and have exponentially more knowledge and experience than I do. So, if I said something completely stupid in my post, sorry, but I'm still learning!
Any advice would be appreciated.
There is SOO much bad information out there and it took me 2 years to decode, before deciding which way I wanted to go with my build.
I have done A LOT of reading, to get a better understanding of what causes the valve drop issue to happen.
I would recommend you speak with @Tony @ Mamo Motorsports about this one bud.
At least have a conversation with him to see what best suits your needs.
You can easily make 530 whp on cam, cold air intake headers and an a tune… stock everything else.
Making it reliably and smoothly is another issue.
I have had a plethora of issues with my “fixed” heads which nearly cost me my engine twice.
A “head fix” fixes nothing, and the only way to really get away from Factory style geometry is to get away from factory style head castings like Frankenstein, Brodix, etc…
Which is why I decided to go with MAMO Motorsports MMS because he uses TFS castings and TFS is the ONLY manufacturer that completely redesigned the rocker perch mounting standards.
I have been EXTREMELY happy with my engine since I decided to go the route I did with concerns to the heads cam package I chose. My driveline LOL. That is another story for another time.
I dont have any dyno results because my driveline is ripped apart at the moment. But we wont get into that here.
But I do know that my MAMO Motorsports MMS “stage 1” heads flow 406 cfm out of the box. Which will out flow most any ported OEM head out there.
Best thing is they do it with a smaller chamber. Which means that the velocity of air is so efficient it actually speeds up allowing more volume of air pass into the combustion chamber.
you can play around with a “head fix” which is nothing more than a bandaid over a bullet wound. Or you can pay a little bit more with a setup that is not only more efficient but more effective.
One thing to ask yourself is, do you really want to play valve drop roulette in an LS7 engine that you cant even get anymore which will cost you at least $12-$15k used now with a “head fix” that fixes nothing?
Or if someone is looking for an aftermarket LS7 cylinder head solution we offer our Archangel heads which are the same heads that power the worlds fastest n/a 427ci C6z06 (runs 8s in the 1/4 mile)
Amazing cylinder heads that make great power and hold up very well!
We typically like to run these with the Comp BSR Shaft mount rocker arms and use them on our 800hp 8,000rpm 442ci builds
Still haven’t decided which way to go. Regardless, I’m committed.
Took me about 2.5 hours to get the car on the quick jacks and get the passenger side head off…damn alternator bracket!
Still haven’t decided which way to go. Regardless, I’m committed.
Took me about 2.5 hours to get the car on the quick jacks and get the passenger side head off…damn alternator bracket!
The car (and garage) is really clean....looks like a great work environment.....your halfway there already!
Shoot me a PM or just pick up the phone and I can discuss some options with you regarding whether you want to invest money in the stock heads or go the aftermarket (more efficient) route.
There are lots of other advantages of going aftermarket besides the fact I feel its truly a better solution to the LS7 valvetrain issues.
We can get into this more on the phone and you can think about and decide what makes the most sense for you.
I just picked up 2007 35,000mi. Same boat can't decide which way to go. I 100% see the futility in getting heads "repaired". Have seen too many post with someone spending a thousand only to have same problem not that much soon after.
Not claiming shops are being dishonest but there is absolutely a lot of money behind claiming all heads sent in are bad or out of spec.
I believe head replacement is only fix out there period. If your going to be dropping cash only do it once.
Side note LSM SC-167 dual spring compressor seems to have stopped production based on website. What tool are you using to compress springs with heads installed. Was wanting to see exactly how much play there was. I know it is not perfect test but should show if one is really out of spec.
Way too much info and different ways to go. Admittedly I'm in over my head. I'm just your basic shade tree mechanic. Pulled motors, transmissions, diffs, replace clutch etc. I lack the knowledge to decifer which way to proceed even with drop in head replacement. Considering spring weight, valve material, rockers etc.
Can someone point me in right direction looking for drop in replacement that would be strong enough to run mild cam. Would like to keep cost around $5,000 as I'm already catching heat from the wife for buying it.
Way too much info and different ways to go. Admittedly I'm in over my head. I'm just your basic shade tree mechanic. Pulled motors, transmissions, diffs, replace clutch etc. I lack the knowledge to decifer which way to proceed even with drop in head replacement. Considering spring weight, valve material, rockers etc.
Can someone point me in right direction looking for drop in replacement that would be strong enough to run mild cam. Would like to keep cost around $5,000 as I'm already catching heat from the wife for buying it.
It’s been decided (for me) - cam swap must be done. Saw some very minor scoring on one of my lifters that made me paranoid. Mind you, these lifters were all replaced roughly 2k miles ago when I bought the car from another forum member last year (lifter was chirping and was fully disclosed to me). The cam lobe looks fine, but there’s no sense in my pulling it out to be polished, if I can just throw a mild cam in there for a few hundred dollars more.
Still undecided on the heads. I’m the type that likes to consume as much information as possible in order to make an educated decision…learning a lot!
The steering rack is ready to be moved out of the way so that I can access the harmonic balancer. I’ll get to it in the next day or so.
edit: Damn, I thought the alternator bracket was tough. The radiator kicked my butt for a solid 2 hours! Hated every minute of it 😂
It’s been decided (for me) - cam swap must be done. Saw some very minor scoring on one of my lifters that made me paranoid. Mind you, these lifters were all replaced roughly 2k miles ago when I bought the car from another forum member last year (lifter was chirping and was fully disclosed to me). The cam lobe looks fine, but there’s no sense in my pulling it out to be polished, if I can just throw a mild cam in there for a few hundred dollars more.
Still undecided on the heads. I’m the type that likes to consume as much information as possible in order to make an educated decision…learning a lot!
The steering rack is ready to be moved out of the way so that I can access the harmonic balancer. I’ll get to it in the next day or so.
edit: Damn, I thought the alternator bracket was tough. The radiator kicked my butt for a solid 2 hours! Hated every minute of it 😂
Whatever cam you decide to go with, go one step up from that. The LS7 can handle a lot more cam without suffering from drivability issues, to me stage 3 is the perfect street cam.
Hi Everybody - I'm pretty much in the same boat. Recently bought an '07 Z06, has about 26k miles on it, unsure of it's history so I plan to "address" the heads for peace of mind. I'll very likely buy some aftermarket parts, that seems to be the "best" approach - and although I'm comfortable with most mechanical things, this is a bit out of my wheelhouse (and I frankly don't have the time to do the work). Does anybody have recommendations on shops in the north east area (particularly Northern New Jersey / Southern New York) who would be competent enough to do the necessary labor to swap heads / valves / etc.? Thanks! Feel free to message me directly too, I do not mean to or want to hijack this thread!
Yes I agree, I have their heads/cam on my car and the package works and puts out the power advertised. I did the work myself, but I would trust them to do work on my car.
Whatever cam you decide to go with, go one step up from that. The LS7 can handle a lot more cam without suffering from drivability issues, to me stage 3 is the perfect street cam.
My plans were to be very conservative with the cam; maybe something like AHP's 116 cam, but leaning towards the 112 cam.
I'd be happy to trade hp, for longevity and drivability. If the car makes 525 to the wheels, that would be perfectly fine with me. If it made 550 to the wheels without sacrificing too much or putting it "close to the edge" - that would be fine too! I don't know if this will be a "forever" car for me (although I plan for it to be around a while), so I also want to keep in mind it's resale appeal down the road if my needs/plans/life were to change.
My plans were to be very conservative with the cam; maybe something like AHP's 116 cam, but leaning towards the 112 cam.
I'd be happy to trade hp, for longevity and drivability. If the car makes 525 to the wheels, that would be perfectly fine with me. If it made 550 to the wheels without sacrificing too much or putting it "close to the edge" - that would be fine too! I don't know if this will be a "forever" car for me (although I plan for it to be around a while), so I also want to keep in mind it's resale appeal down the road if my needs/plans/life were to change.
I understand 100%. I originally bought myself a AHP 116 cam, then before I installed it, I got nervous it wouldn't be enough, so I purchased the Texas Speed 1.2 cam which was a little more cam then the 116, I was so worried about ruining the drivability. Drove the car like that for a year and it just wasn't enough for me, yah it was quick, but I needed more. Ended up doing RPM's heads/cam and I couldn't be happier. It pulls the way I want it to and never signs off like the small cams do. To be 100% honest with you, it drives no worse with the much bigger B3 cam in it then it did with the baby 1.2 cam. This is why I say go bigger. But everyone's needs and wants are different. There is another forum member who had the AHP 116 cam installed and had it removed because he didn't like the drivability, I personally believed that was in the tune he got but that's just my opinion. As far as resale goes, I don't think a bigger cam vs smaller cam will really matter, if someone is looking for a stock car no matter what size cam you have, they will pass on your car anyway. To me 600whp is the sweet spot for these cars and is not even close to the edge if you want to call it. I would recommend the 112 cam over the 116 all day long. I would look at BTR's stage 3 too.
My plans were to be very conservative with the cam; maybe something like AHP's 116 cam, but leaning towards the 112 cam.
I'd be happy to trade hp, for longevity and drivability. If the car makes 525 to the wheels, that would be perfectly fine with me. If it made 550 to the wheels without sacrificing too much or putting it "close to the edge" - that would be fine too! I don't know if this will be a "forever" car for me (although I plan for it to be around a while), so I also want to keep in mind it's resale appeal down the road if my needs/plans/life were to change.
Both our 116 cam and our 112 cam are cut on VERY valve train friendly Cam motion lobes and use their high end 8620 core. Both are great camshafts that with a good tuner will have zero driveability issues. Its all about getting a good tuner when it comes to camshaft driveability. I have seen some tuners fail on small camshafts while other tuners have made Huge stage 4 cams drive near stock. It really is all about the tune when it comes to driveability, I cannot stress that enough.
As far as longevity goes bout our 116 and 112 will have great longevity as they are cut on very similar lobes.
I always tell gusy if you have stock manifolds then go with the 116 cam but if your running headers then go 112 cam no question about it.
116 with cnc ported heads, CAI and stock manifold will make 530rwhp+
112 with cnc ported heads, CAI and headers will make 585+
Originally Posted by furious427
I understand 100%. I originally bought myself a AHP 116 cam, then before I installed it, I got nervous it wouldn't be enough, so I purchased the Texas Speed 1.2 cam which was a little more cam then the 116, I was so worried about ruining the drivability. Drove the car like that for a year and it just wasn't enough for me, yah it was quick, but I needed more. Ended up doing RPM's heads/cam and I couldn't be happier. It pulls the way I want it to and never signs off like the small cams do. To be 100% honest with you, it drives no worse with the much bigger B3 cam in it then it did with the baby 1.2 cam. This is why I say go bigger. But everyone's needs and wants are different. There is another forum member who had the AHP 116 cam installed and had it removed because he didn't like the drivability, I personally believed that was in the tune he got but that's just my opinion. As far as resale goes, I don't think a bigger cam vs smaller cam will really matter, if someone is looking for a stock car no matter what size cam you have, they will pass on your car anyway. To me 600whp is the sweet spot for these cars and is not even close to the edge if you want to call it. I would recommend the 112 cam over the 116 all day long. I would look at BTR's stage 3 too.
Yes again it is 100% about the tune.
116 with a good and proper tune should drive like bone stock till you put your foot into it. The only guys that I have had not love the 116 cam were guys that either A wanted more power after a while (dont we all, lol) or guys that had a tuner that did a less than stellar job
Again it is all about the tune when it comes to camshaft driveability.
FYI we also have our stage 3 and stage 4 cams which the stage 3 is almost identical to the BTR stage 3 v2 but ours is cut on the superior cam motion 8620 core which is significantly harder than the standard comp cores BTR uses. Our stage 4 is almost the same as TSP's stage 4.2 cam but again cut on the same high quality 8620 cam motion core that we cut all our cams on.
06-13-2024, 08:13 AM
