LS2 heads-porting or milling improve them?
08-06-2009, 03:03 AM
#21
Tech Contributor
Trick Flows hit 500rwhp on 6 liter engines. Anyone actually make 500rwhp with their ported 243? I'm asking......if so, what cam?
08-06-2009, 08:32 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
08-06-2009, 09:37 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everytime I see a forum result here (not a magazine test), the car is at 450rwhp with ported heads. A 228 cam and stock heads with a FAST hits 450rwhp.
Trick Flows hit 500rwhp on 6 liter engines. Anyone actually make 500rwhp with their ported 243? I'm asking......if so, what cam?
Trick Flows hit 500rwhp on 6 liter engines. Anyone actually make 500rwhp with their ported 243? I'm asking......if so, what cam?
Last edited by BOB EAGAN; 08-06-2009 at 11:16 AM.
08-06-2009, 09:52 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You shouldnt fall into the flow numbers=power output trap. I have seen countless heads advertised to flow those numbers and still not make the same power as a 305cfm AFR. Why? Its sickening to use the beat-to-death term velocity but its true.
I am not bashing Livernois but cam for cam they never come within 10% of the top heads and a trcik flow 225 is 330ish flow but makes 30-40 more HP with a 232 XER cam.
The L92's with a 230XFI does 480rwhp and I havent seen those kinds of numbers out of any ported 243 casting with such a small cam. If you have please post the results so its not me passing around the wrong info. My car did 471rwhp with a 228xer cam and stock unported L92's. The Ls3 heads on the bigger bnore has done 500rwhp with the same 230XFI cam. Given the right application unshrowding the intake valve I wouldnt go around saying any 243 head will match the power of the LS3 on a 4.65" bore just because it flows 335cfm. The worst head I had ever seen was the old MTI stage 3 that was advertised as 240cfm and made 460rwhp on Aintqik's stroker and a swap to the ETP's at 332cfm made 500rwhp.....no other change. Flow numbers arent how you compare heads.
The best bet is to not reinvent the wheel and use the same parts you have seen used with a given result a few times. I still cant believe the fact that people get 12 to 14 degree splits on L92 heads or LS3 heads. I have duped the same results near 500rwhp on LS3's with a 4 degree split and with L92 heads even with a single pattern cam. Those heads dont like overlap or tight LSA's and they DONT NEED BIG SPLITS.
I am not bashing Livernois but cam for cam they never come within 10% of the top heads and a trcik flow 225 is 330ish flow but makes 30-40 more HP with a 232 XER cam.
The L92's with a 230XFI does 480rwhp and I havent seen those kinds of numbers out of any ported 243 casting with such a small cam. If you have please post the results so its not me passing around the wrong info. My car did 471rwhp with a 228xer cam and stock unported L92's. The Ls3 heads on the bigger bnore has done 500rwhp with the same 230XFI cam. Given the right application unshrowding the intake valve I wouldnt go around saying any 243 head will match the power of the LS3 on a 4.65" bore just because it flows 335cfm. The worst head I had ever seen was the old MTI stage 3 that was advertised as 240cfm and made 460rwhp on Aintqik's stroker and a swap to the ETP's at 332cfm made 500rwhp.....no other change. Flow numbers arent how you compare heads.
The best bet is to not reinvent the wheel and use the same parts you have seen used with a given result a few times. I still cant believe the fact that people get 12 to 14 degree splits on L92 heads or LS3 heads. I have duped the same results near 500rwhp on LS3's with a 4 degree split and with L92 heads even with a single pattern cam. Those heads dont like overlap or tight LSA's and they DONT NEED BIG SPLITS.
08-06-2009, 11:02 AM
#25
Premium Supporting Vendor
You can make great power with your stock heads CNC'd. I don't think you'll be quite as happy as you would be with trickflows, but you can still make killer numbers with your 243s. Where did you get your $4,000 number for trickflows?
08-06-2009, 11:20 AM
#26
Race Director
Thread Starter
$2500 for heads and $1500 for install and other undisclosed parts that are needed...should be pretty close right???
08-06-2009, 11:31 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a special running now on this forum for trickflow 335 for $2399 but it appears the necessary assembly components are extra and that can add another $1000. Not sure about that, but you can check it out.
08-06-2009, 11:50 AM
#28
Race Director
Thread Starter
Sounds about right.. that's what I've been seeing.. and if I'm gonna pay that much then I better get 50rwhp out of them. If I'm paying $4000 for 50rwhp why wouldn't I just save another $3000 and get 150hp from a supercharger.. I'm beginning to think the best thing to have done from the beginning was to go the supercharger route. This heads/cam swapping is just as frickin expensive and you're coming up 50rwhp short..
Last edited by Donuts; 08-06-2009 at 12:10 PM.
08-06-2009, 12:05 PM
#30
Race Director
Thread Starter
08-06-2009, 01:05 PM
#31
Team Owner
I've seen Cartek heads & cam packages consistently make in the 475-490rwhp range (depending on cam choice and rear axle ratio) in an LS2 C6 while still retaining the 243 castings. 
I believe that 'kobun' on this board had made 485rwhp through 4.10s in his 2007 C6 with Cartek ported 243s.
Others have made good power through them as well.
08-06-2009, 02:21 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Member Since: May 2006
Location: NJ..."the way I saw it, everyone takes a beating sometimes."
Posts: 2,891
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I've seen Cartek heads & cam packages consistently make in the 475-490rwhp range (depending on cam choice and rear axle ratio) in an LS2 C6 while still retaining the 243 castings. I believe that 'kobun' on this board had made 485rwhp through 4.10s in his 2007 C6 with Cartek ported 243s.
Others have made good power through them as well.
I made 485rwhp with 4x heads and only a 2x cam. A more aggressive cam would most likely get me to 500. Also adding back the alleged power lost when running 4.10s on a dyno, that alone could bring me to 500. This was done with stock WP and 1 3/4" headers. An EWP and 1 7/8" LTs would raise peak power even more. But these are all just calculated what ifs. Fact is the car did make 485rwhp on ported 243s.
08-06-2009, 03:01 PM
#33
Tech Contributor
I know that Trickflows are the best but that not what the op was asking. I'm not one of those guy that talks about something he's heard second hand from whoever. I refer to Livernois because I have thier products in my car. On Livernois's web site, there is a dyno video of Leslies car. 07, m6, 232/232 .595 114sa, kooks lth, x-pipe, Corsa Sports, Hallteck stinger intake and stage 3 heads. (stage 3r heads add another 20+ hp) This unit has a stock intake manifold, dyno'd at 472/412. With your Spinfast, you're looking at close to 500 and with the stage 3r heads 510-520. So it can be done. Just trying to answer the ops question.Wanted to add, my car is 450/405 with ported heads, the heads have a mild port and additional porting can add 25-35 more hp and I have a stock intake, stock pulley and stock water pump.If I added stage 3r heads and a spinfast I'd be at or near 505 rwhp. Gee that sounds intresting.
If you will make 505rwhp they they are a real plaer in the top end game. I'd like to see the finished result with the manifold before assuming though. If its a 1500 dollar head complete with springs and valves but if its 2500, like some tuner porting on a 243 you are wasting money. You will not get much of that back when you sell. 2400 is a trick flow head and sells for a good amount of it back. Keep in mind that you have a set of cores that will sell for 500 bucks that tuners take as the core in addition to porting your 243 heads making a 2500 dollar head a 3000 dollar head whcih is insane considering the trick flows cost 2400 plus the rocker minus you selling your cores. If its a 1500 dollar head and you lose the core its 2k. Look at all the costs involved.
08-06-2009, 04:43 PM
#34
Former Vendor
Aside from the Head Gaskets and Head Bolts/Studs, you'll need longer Pushrods with the Trickflows.
Trickflow 225cc CNC Ported Cylinder Heads
$2379
Yella Terra Ultralite Shaft Mount Non-Adjustable Roller Rocker 1.7 Ratio (LS1/LS2)
$450
Seth
Trickflow 225cc CNC Ported Cylinder Heads
$2379
Yella Terra Ultralite Shaft Mount Non-Adjustable Roller Rocker 1.7 Ratio (LS1/LS2)
$450
Seth
08-07-2009, 12:31 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd suggest you go to page one of this post and read all the posts untill you get back here. If you do that and still need the question answered I'd be more than happy to do so.
08-07-2009, 09:34 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
470-480 is easy to be had with 225 dollar L92 heads and a 228 or a 230xfi cam....(stock unported) so I dont see why you would pay for porting a 243 head. Scoggins sells the L92 heads. A 232 cam is bigger yet so if thats only making 472rwhp I'd look at the cheaper L92 which doesnt use a FAST.
If you will make 505rwhp they they are a real plaer in the top end game. I'd like to see the finished result with the manifold before assuming though. If its a 1500 dollar head complete with springs and valves but if its 2500, like some tuner porting on a 243 you are wasting money. You will not get much of that back when you sell. 2400 is a trick flow head and sells for a good amount of it back. Keep in mind that you have a set of cores that will sell for 500 bucks that tuners take as the core in addition to porting your 243 heads making a 2500 dollar head a 3000 dollar head whcih is insane considering the trick flows cost 2400 plus the rocker minus you selling your cores. If its a 1500 dollar head and you lose the core its 2k. Look at all the costs involved.
If you will make 505rwhp they they are a real plaer in the top end game. I'd like to see the finished result with the manifold before assuming though. If its a 1500 dollar head complete with springs and valves but if its 2500, like some tuner porting on a 243 you are wasting money. You will not get much of that back when you sell. 2400 is a trick flow head and sells for a good amount of it back. Keep in mind that you have a set of cores that will sell for 500 bucks that tuners take as the core in addition to porting your 243 heads making a 2500 dollar head a 3000 dollar head whcih is insane considering the trick flows cost 2400 plus the rocker minus you selling your cores. If its a 1500 dollar head and you lose the core its 2k. Look at all the costs involved.
Last edited by BOB EAGAN; 08-07-2009 at 09:39 AM.
08-07-2009, 12:02 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
On my setup I picked up 3 tenths in the quarter when I went to 243 Stage 3 Ported and milled heads... Details of setup is in my signature.
The dyno figures below were done without the FAST and in 99 degree heat...
The dyno figures below were done without the FAST and in 99 degree heat...
08-07-2009, 12:53 PM
#39
Race Director
Thread Starter
I had YT rockers installed when I had new cam installed about 2000 miles ago.. they should be ok to move to new heads right?? So that would save me $450
Aside from the Head Gaskets and Head Bolts/Studs, you'll need longer Pushrods with the Trickflows.
Trickflow 225cc CNC Ported Cylinder Heads
$2379
Yella Terra Ultralite Shaft Mount Non-Adjustable Roller Rocker 1.7 Ratio (LS1/LS2)
$450
Seth
Trickflow 225cc CNC Ported Cylinder Heads
$2379
Yella Terra Ultralite Shaft Mount Non-Adjustable Roller Rocker 1.7 Ratio (LS1/LS2)
$450
Seth
08-07-2009, 03:59 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: BURTON MI
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allowing 25/25 for the fast would put you at or near 492/442. Those are some very nice numbers indeed. Must be a ball to drive.