JerryU

I'm just waiting for our present US government to add gasoline (and significant increased monies) to the current food credit card (replaced our food stamps!) Yep to get votes they pay some folks off!

msm859

Until they can get to level 5 I don't see anything becoming "mandatory" And I don't see level 5 for decades. As to that report - pretty worthless. Raw number means nothing. How does that compare to car crashes on other cars. And I would expect Tesla to "lead" They have a magnitude higher than any other manufacturer with autonomous driving.

Michael A

Oh, that's what it is. It's just a psychological condition.

Nobody cares if some EV is "nearly as fast" or faster than a C8 in a drag race, because that's all an EV is good for. Nobody cares if a motorcycle is faster either. Over the years there have been sedans and SUVs that have accelerated faster than Corvettes. Nobody cares.

NW-99SS

Exactly.

Formula E vs even just Formula 2 nevermind Formula 1. No one cares to watch slot cars unless they are squeezing the controller.

Goodwood events draw more attention than any EV series...period. And that's all vintage stuff considered slow by C4 Corvette standards.

Fast Dawg

Is this the company? https://www.wbcsd.org/Overview/About-us

I think your assumptions are a bit premature but maybe not for California. State governments have been trying to reduce VMT with alternate transportation for years. I live in NW Georgia. Atlanta's alternate transportation plan has been a disaster since it's inception. In fact, counties in the suburbs of Atlanta started their own alternate transportation plans to keep Atlanta's rapid transit out because of crime. The criminals in the city were using it to get to the suburbs, commit crimes, then take it back to the city. The last time I rode it was about a decade ago to get from my office on the north side of town to the airport on the south side of town. The trains had become a haven for the homeless, reeked of urine, were very dirty, and there wasn't any sign of security. It's being partially funded by government but where is the money going? Certainly not into that rail system. It's still that way today.

Go back a little over a decade when I was living and working in Chicago. I lived 50 miles west of the city and I only took the train to the city for business and pleasure. The trains were well maintained. There was a conductor on every train who collected tickets while we were en-route. It also saved me about two hours a day in the car for the same trip. You can't travel on an interstate around Chicago without paying tolls, so your point is well taken. Some states will get there but most will not without significant funding. Threats won't cut it. The people making the policies you are referring to will get voted out of office and we all know they don't want to risk that.

I did a quick search on this and the insurance companies are all over the board on this point, but one point was pretty clear: they won't charge people more that drive ICE vehicles. In fact, one study I read said that they only project about 12% of all cars on the road in 2030 to be EVs. People simply can't afford them and the infrastructure to support them is going to take a lot longer to build out than what we are hearing from our government now. They take a very small look - inside the DC beltway - but don't think about the millions and millions of rural roads in the country.

BTW - you don't have to tell any of us we are in denial or ignorant. Your first line most likely tuned out a lot of people. The research being done is fascinating. I spent my career in the transportation industry - UPS - and we were well on our way purchasing only clean energy vehicles over a decade ago. I'm no stranger to this.

JerryU

I'm all for a logical, technically sound transition from fossil fuel. BUT Dr. Oz (running for Senate in PA) had some interesting statistics the other day in a TV interview. Perhaps not perfect BUT I've been saying it for years!

He noted Germany and some other European Counties beholden to Russia for energy have decided to go back to coal for electricity, which they had been reducing. Coal produces TWICE the CO2/BTU (energy measure) as Natural Gas. As he noted if the US were all EV's now would not compensate for their return to coal by a lot. (BTW were have decreased the use of coal dramatically and it's only about 20% of our electric production and quickly switching to Natural Gas.)

As he noted Pennsylvania has enough Natual Gas to power the Country for 100 years. (Not sure about PA BUT the country does for sure BUT need Fracking.) He said we have just started to supply liquid natual gas to several counties in Europe. Has been happening for years but should be much more!

Before we abandoned heavy industry US Shipyards were building LNG ships in the 1970's. Recall working with Newport News Ship on welding an Invar based tanker! Also General Dynamics on a more conventional LNG tanker using huge Aluminum Spherical tanks.

The Italians have been getting LNG for many years from a now no longer very stable source, Libia. We could be supplying the World, reducing China's 60+% coal generated electricity(and currently building new coal power plants ) and India's 75% coal generated power. We could cut the World CO2 emissions buy many times reducing that generated in the US from cars.

We're pissing in the ocean, spending billions on solar cells and wind towers (and subsidies) while others are generating CO2 into the same air! STUPID!

NW-99SS

And you haven't even mentioned China's reliance on cheap coal. Canada also has enough LNG to supply all of NA for hundreds of years, and that has nothing to do with our oil reserves.

Yet all our LNG efforts have been blocked, or massively delayed...just getting China to use our LNG instead of our cheap coal would save more CO2 than all personal vehicles globally.

T VETTE

I have owned 5 Corvette and will never spend a dollar on this. I know you felt like you had to do it but Sorry GM E-Ray

JerryU

My early career was in R&D and developed a SAW system that doubled the speed of making large diameter high pressure gas and oil pipe. Was used by many of the pipemills (owned by steel mills) in the US, Canada and some overseas. Stellco had a number of systems in Welland. Worked with Camrose Pipe and Ipsco. Recall giving a technical talk in Toronto in the mid 1970's and a speaker showed all the natural gas in Northern Canada.

Some more difficult to get as it's under permafrost but can be gathered and piped to a port for export. The US and Canada can be the World's supplier of energy and cut CO2 in half! One of my largest current customer's was mostly making liquid Oxygen, Nitrogen and Argon cryogenic tanks and air liquefaction plants. It's now going full blast making LNG production and storage products. In addition to 8 plants in the US they have ~600 welder's in a new plant in China and ~300 in the Czech Republic. That's how many of my shielding gas (argon mixtures) saving product I have sold them!

BTW, Hydrogen can be made from Natural Gas! Some is currently. Yep, we just need folks with a vison of what can be accomplished instead of blocking what is logical.

PRE-Z06

Those with the gold make the rules, so I’d say follow the money as I’m sure there’s lobbying being done to keep the money in the hands of those who have it and it isn’t about saving the world from pollution as fear is the greatest tool for manipulation.

msm859

Except the whole world participated in an experiment in March/April 2020. Basically everyone gave up driving ICE cars. The sky was blue and long lost mountains from far away could be seen again. You don't even have to debate climate change. The world without a bunch of ICE vehicles running around was a better place.

JerryU

^^^
Big difference in what LA was able to do reducing smog that was bad on my first visits to US Steel in LA and Kaiser in Fontaina in the late 1960s. They were making the large diamter, heavy wall pipe to bring water from Colorado (who thought CA was crazy buying all their excess water - (don't think so now!) Daughter has been in the Claremont CA area since starting as a student at Scrippes college in ~1980. Recall could not see the top of Mt Baldy. Could barely see there were mountains! Pollution was bad. BUT the ~0.035% CO2 in the atmosphere is not causing inability to see the blue sky! On my visits, I can see Baldy all the time. Can talk about it increasing global temps but not smog!

Racer X

You think that was all from cars? What about airplanes. And people not being in offices? You continually show what narrow view you have of the world. I have never had anything but blue skies and clear air where I live in the DFW area since the mid 80s. New cars are very low in pollution. You have swallowed a whole barrel of Kool-aid, and about 10 hooks, lines, and sinkers.

There was little to nothing better about the world during the pandemic. Unless you think death and economic ruin make the world a better place….. I don’t.

PRE-Z06

Why did they “participate”? I was an essential worker, so I didn’t do anything different nor wore a mask unless required or got vaccinated. I’m not saying it wasn’t real, but I think we overreacted and that’s what many want as it’s hard to undue the panic once it starts. Small businesses aren’t what benefitted, big ones did and plenty of people capitalized. Do we play a part in contributing to pollution with ICE sure, though debatable on how much as I’d say a relatively small one. I think it’s narcissistic to think we can control Mother Nature, the climate is always changing as we can’t control solar flares, volcanoes and of course what other countries do. Do you not think the world coming to an end because of “climate change” could be used to manipulate people?

lostsoul

I cant wait to see the debates when a FULL EV Corvette comes out..lol

NW-99SS

You are talking about China, where the industrial shut down cleared the skies, not cars off the road. I never stopped driving at all, in fact, I drove more as airports shut down.

msm859

Actually the world - your increased driving notwithstanding. And my original comment was designed to not begin a debate about climate change. Did not expect the pushback about ICE vehicles causing a decline in air quality.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57149747

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...-clean-the-sky

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...-from-the-norm

PRE-Z06

Personally I’m skeptical of the results as air quality varies throughout the year as pressure differential/winds/storm systems change it constantly and numbers can be manipulated for propaganda. Did emissions levels go down during the lockdowns, no doubt. Though is that a solution? You can’t just change the economy of the world overnight and not expect consequences, there are going to be winners and losers as there always is. Who decides that or what’s fair? Human nature is to be selfish, so I don’t have a lot of faith that it’ll work itself out peacefully. I think we’re getting to the point of finding out how far people will be pushed to accept the changes and I like this forum as you get different perspectives from not only across the US but also from around the world, not to go off topic. Climate change is too vague of a label and can be used to justify lots of things is my fear, to what extreme will the world go to punish others for polluting? Shipping cement from Turkey to Texas because a local plant isn’t allowed to produce more while another is shutdown makes no sense to me. How do you quantify all the pollution/waste produced making/shipping DEF? Or all pollution produced on the parts/service calls on the emission systems of the millions of diesels which the majority of the problems they have are related to? In the meantime, the same manufacturers sell lower emission standard equipment to other countries? How do you merge those standards, bring the other countries up to the higher standards or bring the more advanced country down?

ShagVette

Once a Corvette, or other EV passes their internal combustion like they're standing still, how many will then "come around" and accept EVs? - they can make the vroom vroom sound another way

NW-99SS

You mean in a straight line, because even the fastest most performance oriented EV available today - the Tesla Plaid, doesn't handle or brake with even a base, non-Z51 Corvette.

So I guess you are referring to single metric only enthusiasts, who only care about acceleration from a dead stop....