BPHORSEGUY

RKCRLR & ANDYBUMP,
Thank you very much for the info on The C8 De Sulphating cycle. I found the same link just after my request but would not have known to look? This is very
important because some consider De Sulphating junk science. if GM uses the technology that is good enough for me. I own several De Sulphaters and have done my own tests proving they work, some better then others ! The op's original question was will charging extend the life of a battery. I believe the answer is now an un conditional yes if we are talking a modern de sulphating maintainer and maybe. for a simple trickle charger depending on the situation and use of the car and trickle charger.
This is starting to sound like an oil thread!

RKCRLR

Just to be clear, GM calls it a sulfation mode, not a desulfation mode. The way it is described it may just be a mode that prevents sulfation in the first place.

Sulfation isn't a major factor in a properly charged and discharged battery. Doing a desulfation process on a battery without sulfation doesn't do any good. And a maintainer won't do a desulfation process unless it detects sulfation or is forced into the desulfation mode. So if you are concerned about sulfation you could connect the maintainer every once in a while to do a desulfation process if necessary.

Andybump

I agree. When I looked up "de-sulfation", some devices will apply high voltage (one said 60 v) pulsed to "loosen" whatever it is that forms on the plates. The "sulfation" mode described by the manual appears to kick in if the generator voltage has been below 13.2 volts for 45 minutes. At that point it enters Charge mode, applying a higher voltage for 2-3 minutes. The Charge mode is described as having voltage between 13.9 and 15.5 volts.

BPHORSEGUY

Lead Sulfates form on the plates
The desulfate modes return at least some of them to the Sufuric acid. You cannot stop the process but you can slow ir down by keeping the battery fully charged!

akdredger

Not sure about the Vette yet. 200 miles on it and it's going to sit until May sometime. It is on a charger until then.

I know for a fact that the 8 batteries in my diesel pusher came from the factory with a built in trickle charger to keep batteries charged while sitting.

Once a battery goes completely dead, they don't last as long. I am fairly certain that a major battery manufacturer could provide you with some factual evidence.

BLUE1972

This is what the Heathkit charger explained it did, if I remember correctly from 50+ years ago. They claimed it would help "clean" / disulfate the plates in the battery.

Back in the 60's I built a Heathkit battery charger from the kit. It had a DESULFATE mode on the selection switch. When I used an oscilloscope , I noticed the charge was 1/2 sign wave A/C . Maybe this is what the Car does every so often, The Heathkit charger brought a "bad" battery back when the sears charger would not.

I'm guessing, never took the time to really see if this was the reason.

5632

Bring up old times. I remember when I would be told to put an Aspirin in each cell of the battery to rehab it.

TomT

You asked an impossible question, expect advice from very knowledgeable people, with tons of experience on your topic, and vehicle. They spend their time giving you useful information, and you call it "entertainment". I am glad there is no chance that I will ever have any contact with you.

MarkMeHopeful

@TomT And I am also glad (although this seems like contact to me).

I asked specifically about battery longevity and most of the replies wandered off onto other terrain, which is exactly what I expected on this forum. I did thank the minority who actually tried to provide the information I was looking for, and I stand by my comment about the entertainment. As far as very knowledgeable people with tons of experience on my topic, are we reading the same thread? I did, however, start a thread that got 5 pages of responses and is still going strong. Lighten up a little.

Andybump

The question about battery life led to topics related to battery charging, the C8 charging system, battery chargers, and battery chemistry. I learned some stuff from what other members posted, and I also learned some stuff by researching some of the questions that got raised and sharing what I found. I found the subject matter informative, useful, and entertaining.

Foosh

I doubt that a carefully controlled study has ever been done that demonstrates a statistically significant increase in battery longevity for batteries placed on maintainers consistently vs. those never put on maintainers. Such a study would be costly, long-term, and probably not worth the cost of conducting.

However, since it is an established fact that every deep discharge causes some damage to lead acid batteries, by extrapolation, it would be reasonable to theorize that, statistically speaking, maintainers are probably linked to longer life in vehicles not driven on an almost daily basis.

That's probably the most plausible conclusion one can reach.

oreobbq

You forgot to submit your response in APA format and cite your scientific sources. Lol

It doesn't seem like a tender hurts longevity so might as well use it if you have it.

MarkMeHopeful

I would argue that it doesn't seem like a tender increases longevity enough to warrant the extra effort for a daily driven C8.

Foosh

Probably not, although calling it an "effort" is a stretch.

MarkMeHopeful

Perhaps "extra time" works better - opening frunk and plugging it in to park, then unplugging and closing the frunk before driving.

Foosh

Once set up, it's about a 30-second process. I leave the 12v pigtail plugged in, and the CTEK and cords are already laid out next to it's parking spot. I simply pull into the garage, shut the engine down, hit the frunk button on the door, plug-in and close. When leaving, I open the frunk with the fob, unplug, close and leave.

It's as effortless and fast as plugging in a PHEV or EV.

dohabandit

I am an EE and I am going to send you to Battery University!
https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...acid-batteries
https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...-to-prevent-it
https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...ging-lead-acid
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Acid_Batteries

And YES, you should keep your C8 on a trickle charger / battery tender.
Regardless of the rate of discharge, it will extend the life of the battery because a topped off battery that is maintained with a floating charge has less sulfation occurring.
Thanks to the C8 using more power than other vehicles, even when it sleeps it wakes up periodically, and you don't want to deplete the state of charge and allow sulfation to rob you of battery life.

I think the NOCO genius chargers detect a 12v battery in a low power state (less than 10v?) and will trigger an overcharge cycle to help reduce / reverse early sulfation. If I recall, the NOCO also does pulsed inverse charging to reverse sulfation.

Personally, I don't think I would want my NOCO trying to inverse charge or overcharge my C8 battery while it is in-circuit with the voltage regulator in the car. I would only want to do that on a bench, so the best thing is to keep that battery topped off so that the NOCO only does trickle/floating charge to maintain the full state of charge.
When you connect a charger, use the cigarette lighter outlet in the frunk or hardwire the charging leads to the battery, but do NOT connect the negative lead directly to the battery post. You must connect it to the terminal on the other side of the battery current sensor. This car monitors current INTO and OUT of the battery to decide how to apply charging current to the battery when the vehicle is running. If you charge it directly (beyond the sensor), the vehicle could potentially significantly overcharge / COOK your battery which would be bad.



Connect your charger here ^^^ and you are good!

Btw, am I the only person that is really peeved by the fact that NOCO puts a RED STRIPE on the negative lead? Yeah, the other lead is solid red, but still, this still seems dumb to me.

dohabandit

You know, this gives me an idea for a simple project. Hook up an Arduino or ESP8266 to monitor the state of charge on a C8 battery that is parked and not being topped by a tender.
Store the data in an influxdb / grafana database and just put some real numbers and pretty pictures out there to prove the issue for those that believe this is purely opinion.
I imagine results will vary vastly based on how often the vehicle is driven, how long it is driven during each cycle, ambient temperatures, etc.

I have a quality fluke power monitor that could be used to do this, but unfortunately it is sitting in my other office and needs to be available for going out to work sites.

BLUE1972

So here is the answer, follows what I was taught in the 60's, I was taught that a battery that is most of the time fully charged will outlast a battery that is usually not fully charged.

ARTICLE:

How to Make The Life of Your Car Battery Last Longer

Kiersten HickmanUpdated: Dec. 08, 2022

Double that car battery life and save some serious dough! These tips will keep your car's battery in tip-top condition for as long as possible.

How Long Do Car Batteries Last?

What is the Life of a Car Battery? Typically car batteries will last you four to six years. However, some factors could get in the way of the car or RV battery life time frame such as weather conditions, vehicle type, or even how you drive your car.

A car battery change will have to happen eventually, but that doesn’t mean you can’t treat the car battery with proper care. If you want to double your car battery life, these simple steps will help you in doing so. Here’s how to jump start your car.

Drive longer distances frequently

How Do You Charge a Car Battery? According to the Motor Trade Association, frequent short trips could actually contribute to a shorter lifespan for car batteries. Car batteries recharge at longer distances and will receive a full charge after eight hours of use. If a battery isn’t receiving a full charge, strong crystalline deposits can form on the negative plates and can actually prevent the battery from receiving a proper charge. Now that doesn’t mean you need to drive the car eight hours on the daily, but it does mean you should be careful with the amount you are using the electric auxiliary controls within the car. The car’s lights, heater fan, and radio all rely on the battery.

Keep Battery in Neutral Temperatures

Batteries typically can withstand most types of temperatures, but extreme hot (and extreme cold) can cause problems. Hot temperatures can cause battery fluid to evaporate, which can actually cause problems of overcharging. This actually decreases the lifespan of your battery.

Colder temperatures will actually cause self-discharge, which will ultimately lead to a dead battery. The battery’s electrolytes can even freeze and cause issues internally and externally on the battery’s case. If your car is going to be idle during winter months, it would be safe to find a space with a neutral temperature for the car.

Invest in a Battery Maintainer

Are you locking up a car, or maybe even a boat, for the colder months? Idle batteries can actually lose their charge, so you’ll want to keep the battery alive during those winter months. Batteries should be charged every six weeks in order to be healthy. However, this does not mean that the battery should be sitting on a charger because that could actually shorten its life. Instead, a battery maintainer will help to monitor the battery voltage and automatically adjust the charge to avoid under and overcharging it.

Clean Your Car Battery

It’s important to look for corrosion on your battery. Corrosion is when a white powder is around the nodes or clamps of the battery. You can clean the clamps with baking soda, water, and a nonmetallic brush. It’s especially important to be doing this when your battery isn’t corroded. Corrosion means it’s probably time for a new battery, but if you are keeping it clean, it could increase longevity.

Test Your Car Battery

Here’s how to check a car battery: Test the electrolyte in each cell. Squeeze the ball and draw the solution into the tester. Carefully hold the tester level and write down the reading. Squirt the solution back into the same cell. The testers are calibrated assuming a battery is at 80 degrees F. Add .04 to each reading for every 10 degrees above 80 and subtract .04 for every 10 degrees below. If you get a cell reading that differs from the others by .05 or more, replace the battery. A fully charged battery should have a reading of 1.265 or higher. If all the readings show fair or low (1.200 is low) but are consistent, recharge the battery.

turbota

I was thinking the exact same thing. The only thing I can contribute is my actual experience using a tender.