Exotica

I know this subject has brought intense opinions on both sides. This thread is not about starting up another feud. I simply want feedback from people who made the switch in order to have the new glorious LT6.

For those of you who, at one point, were die hard manual Corvette owners but now own a C8 Z06 how have you enjoyed the transition? I never could foresee myself purchasing an automatic Corvette since I enjoy the driver engagement that a manual transmission provides. I don't care about being the fastest. I would gladly give up a couple tenths to have a manual option but alas it is no longer an option. I have a deposit on a C8Z with a large dealership that is coming due soon and I am struggling with the idea of having to move to an automatic. So strongly that I am now considering going back to a manual C7Z (along with saving the extra cash for other investments)

I am fully aware of all the other reasons people love the new Z but how have you dealt with the loss of rowing the gears if it once was a passion?

international blue

Rowing gears is for older cars that don't track seriously. Today the car to avoid being unsettled needs to be in gear all of the time. The DCT helps that.

The car benefits from the DCT, and it's a more accurate machine because of it. BTW, buy a really nice Big Block C2 to get the true feeling of rowing through the gears.

And is shifting truly your passion?

Exotica

I have driven several automatic Corvettes (C5, C6 C7 and C8s) and never felt the same enjoyment as my own C5 and C7 manuals. I understand the benefits of the DCT, and I don't doubt any of them. But my question is about how those who strongly prefer manual are dealing with the forced transition to automatic in order to have the new Z

123sugey

I’m a stick guy at heart. Love autos for drag racing with a high stall convertor, love the trans in the C8 w/ launch control. Pure engagement with a car … there isn’t anything like a stick car. Sure … paddle shifting you can shift up and down the gears. Slipping a clutch from a dead stop has a lot of fun involved. Same thing goes for holding the rpm’s high in a gear and then shifting

Big Lebowski

“Enjoyed?” Maybe not exactly. Accepted, yes, I believe so.

I had been a year one adopter of multiple Corvette generations but did not get a C8 until 2022. Part of it was the demand, but mostly I slow walked placing an order due to the lack of a manual transmission. I waited 13 months for my ‘22 Red Mist Z51 HTC. I truly loved it but did not find paddle shifting the Stingrays LT2 a suitable replacement for a manual. I’d occasionally play with the gears manually, but usually left it in “Auto”.

It wasn’t until I took delivery of my C8 Z06, that I experienced that driver “engagement” again.

The C8 Z06 and that LT6 engine are glorious. This is my 11th Corvette, and 3rd Z06. Each was better than the last, but the leap to the C8 Stingray was a whole new level. The leap from the C8 Stingray to the Z06 is another level still. All of them have felt like Corvettes, but the C8 and now the C8Z are the most amazing leap forward I’ve ever experienced in ANY car from one generation to another.

I realize I’m still in the honeymoon phase, but I’m finding the paddle shifts, dual clutch trans shift speed, engine sound and exhaust note have renewed that “loving feeling,” that feeling of engagement with the car again…oh and when I feel lazy or find myself in traffic, I tap the “M” and go back to Auto mode.

JMB

people like you ALWAYS assume that if someone races their car, all they do is go roundy-round....you ALWAYS forget that there are just as many VERY SERIOUS drag racers! I'd like you to convince Sebast19x that running 8's in his NA LS7/T56, and regularly driving it on the street, is wasting his time shifting his T56 and isn't SERIOUS about tracking his "older car" lol
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ord-again.html

Ragtop 99

I drive in manual mode. Just like driving a stick, in normal driving, I now don't think about shifting, it mostly happens as muscle memory keyed by the sound of the engine. When I want to go fast, I feel engaged by using the paddles. It took some miles and time for me to stop moving my left foot as I was shifting with the paddles.

I don't miss the clutch when stuck in stop and go traffic.

blackbirdws6

If this was to be my only sports car, I'd prefer something with a manual. Being fortunate enough to say I have other toys, I find the auto interesting with its speed and efficiency. The paddles were slow to react in the C7 but very responsive in the C8Z. The theater of the engine when you grab the paddle is more fun that I thought as well.

Saying it simply, I don't have the heavy desire to row the gears in this car.

noticket

I’ve been a manual enthusiast since I first learned to drive on a Toyota Tercel.

There are so many awesome things to love about the C8Z. To be honest the 8 gears and tight gearing make it fun to wind out first and second on the street, and the satisfying crack and pops on up shift is intoxicating.

That said, I love manuals, and I may trade my car in for a Lotus Emira if I find I can’t truly fall in love with the car due to not being able to look past the transmission.

capevettes

I paddle shift 100% of the time. I think of it as a manual without a clutch, only much faster. I still have my other manual cars to scratch that itch, but I like this DCT so much I would opt for it even if a manual was still offered.

Luke42_02

Honestly, I was happy even with the switch from manual to the C7’s 8 speed slushbox. I was a big manual transmission guy and would not have been caught dead in an automatic, but I gave the 8-speed a try because it was faster and got better gas milage.

If you feel the automatic is not engaging enough, get that sucker to a racetrack for some HPDE. There’s so much going on out on track that it’s a relief to not have to fumble with the clutch. You can’t accidentally stick it in the wrong gear and toast the engine the way you can with a true manual, and it’s just faster.

I once won an SCCA National Tour event by 0.057 seconds combined time for the entire weekend. There is no doubt I would have finished second or third if I bought the manual.

All that was true of the C7, and the C8’s DCT is far, far superior to that.

I love manuals, for any car older than 2010 it’s certainly the way to go, but it’s out-dated now and if you want to really drive a car at the limit you just flat out won’t be able to with a manual.

c7gsmike

I too went from a '19 C7Z M7 to '24 C8Z. It took some getting used to not using my left foot. After 4 months in the C8Z, I am loving the DCT M mode. The LT6 mated to this Tremec DCT is amazing. I think you won't be disappointed.

hcvone

My first 14 corvette's were manuals, my wife's 70th Anniversary convertible was the first non manual corvette, used to it because been driving 911 turbo's as long as corvette's, both since 1986, rather have a manual, but for performance the new automatics are impossible to beat. Having said that I missed shifting gears so much I picked this up, and it's a blast to drive, not a corvette, but lots of fun

sshu

I have had a manual car for 20+ years in my garage and this is the first time I’ve only had a dual clutch. A dual clutch is a very different experience from a traditional auto, more engaging and fun. I thought I would miss having a manual but I don’t. Also the peaky nature of the engine pairs better with a dct. The driving experience with the LT6 is that special that I don’t feel the yearning for wanting to go back to the manual. Will I go back to a manual car in the future? Probably but I’m going to fully enjoy what I have now.

Joefab

The new modern perfected double clutch transmissions / DCT and Porsches PDK are awesome under any and all circumstances with no exceptions no downsides.
Personally, i will never ever buy another brand new car and or ever specify a manual only transmission when a modern DCT is actually and truly a full manual transmission that you can lock into full manual mode and still 100% engage your left leg and right hand. Then when the driver chooses he has the ability to go full automatic . Therefore any drivers gets 100% dual functionality. Everyone’s different - Carls manual 4 door is fast n rare and there are still a few MTs for the MT only buyers.

For me MT is for vintage cars and equipment.
I wrote a Fabspeed Motorsport blog about the advantages and disadvantages of Manual transmission versus PDK/DCT. DCT/PDK are not sloppy transmissions like we all knew growing up.

its funny at Fabspeed motorsport i have all these young millennials gen Xers that all are “saying they are 100% manual ONLY buyers and anything else is simply 100% unacceptable. They used to go on and on with waxy eyes about driver engagement and the sheer joy of shifting , declutching , shifting and enjoyment. Some maniacs even stated huge crazy belt way traffic jamms for 4 + hours in Los Angeles, Washington DC and “rubber neck car accidents “ that they still maintain that theyi enjoy a manual even UNDER these catastrophic traffic jamms.

Here is the Manual Transmission versus DCT/PDK blog i wrote.WHICH IS BETTER A MANUAL TRANSMISSION CAR
OR A MODERN DCT/ PDK EQUIPPED CAR?

The Question / Argument of the Century 6/18/2024

________________________________________ ________________________________________ ____

Manual Transmission equipped cars versus DCT/ PDK transmission cars. THIS IS LIKE POLITICS TO SOME SPORTS CAR OWNERS AND DRIVERS. Everyone has an opinion and everyone often has a closed mind and predisposition to their favorite transmission choice. I however will sort out the Advantages, Disadvantages, benefits, and technical points of both Manual versus DCT/PDK transmissions as best as possible.



Manual transmissions were the very 1st transmissions that were offered in cars at the start of cars creation by Gottlieb Daimler which created the world's 1st car that ultimately grew and formed the legendary Mercedes Benz.



The Manual transmission required a shift lever , clutch pedal and therefore 3 pedal box for the driver. 3 pedals signifies gas pedal accelerator pedal on the far RIGHT, the Brake pedal in the middle and the Clutch pedal on the far Left. Shifting required constant left foot to Clutch and declutch between upshifting and downshifting while selecting gears and while driving. Reversing required a separate gear and a lock-out too so one could NOT get reverse and have a catastrophic problem when going forward in the manual car. The brake and gas pedal logically control deceleration/ braking and acceleration and regulated speed.



Since manuals were the ONLY transmission choice until the invention of the Automatic transmission the manuals were much more familiar to drivers and general acceptance of automatics eventually became widespread. Automatic transmissions made driving super simple, easy and effortless in traffic jams and inner city bumper to bumper congestion. That being said , a MANUAL ONLY DIE HARD often still states in his opinion that heavy traffic and a manual transmission is still FUN. Traffic jams, high traffic congested driving are terrible NO what transmission one has. Therefore MT only guys are super biased.



In the 1960s to 1990s European sports cars were essentially all Manual transmission equipped and there were some automatics offered to satisfy the buying public. Typically Mercedes, BMW offered automatics to satisfy drivers. Porsche offered a lousy SportoMatic and later “Tiptronic”, a Mercedes Benz product that was terrible. Ferrari and Lamborghini offered NO slushbox automatics and IF they did they were terrible and ONLY offered to certain American markets for those unable or NOT willing to learn to drive a stick. “STICK” is the generic commonplace name for a manual transmission “shift Lever” and lots of Romance and automotive Slang about being able to drive “STICK” has been around for decades.



Benefits of MANUAL transmissions - Real and associated lore and romance . Dedicated drivers and aficionados of MANUAL driving cars are often really and truly convinced that STICK/MANUAL driven cars are the ONLY way to order , drive and own a car. Some of these people BORDER on Religious fanaticism. It's like a Holy War: their love and devotion to Manual transmission cars. At Fabspeed we have printed T shirts “Give me a Manual or Give me Death’ inspired by those individuals.



Anyway back to benefits of manual transmission:

1. the driver gets to personally select gears as they wish and shift to higher and lower gears as they choose. A Manual transmission certain allows the driver the sole choice of how to shift and drive
2. BUMP STARTING- if a manual transmission car EVER has a DEAD Battery or the Driver leaves a LIGHT on and the battery is too weak to start and you do NOT have JUMPER Cables in hand- a MANUAL Transmission car can be BUMP STARTED. HOW? Find a hill or slope and Push and RUN next to the drivers side with the DOOR OPEN and when you get enough SPEED and then you .simply jump in and declutch and put the gear lever into 2nd gear and let the clutch out with the KEY on the start position and VIOLA the manual car will start and YOU CAN know recharge the battery and DRIVE to your destination . A Major benefit that I have personally used 20+ times and I can't remember them all. All you need is a slight slope downhill and YOU can start any Manual car with a dead or weak battery. That is a significant advantage.
3. Driver engagement- often shifting a manual transmission car makes the Driver feel more involved and or engaged. Some might say that they feel in better control with the car and vehicle. The driver that can really use a manual and all its functions feels a SENSE of accomplishment and enjoyment.
4. Anti-Theft advantage- in later years as the Automatic was generally accepted worldwide many young people and especially Millennials were NOT interested and Could NOT drive manual transmission cars. Car thieves and millennials therefore could NOT steal or drive manual transmissions as they did NOT have the skill and the benefit was a Manual was an antitheft device. There is STRONG merit to the ANTI-THEFT M.T. argument.
5. Anti damage device for parents- I personally never EVER taught my 2 children HOW to drive a manual transmission so they COULD NOT drive my manual transmission cars. 100% premeditated NON driving therefore no possible damage to my cars. Smart, calculated and selfish decision on my part.
6. Manual transmission cars in the old days could offer better fuel economy than early sloppy automatic transmission cars achieved.
7. Manual transmission trucks and certain cars could have 6 or more gears so Torque and Power were always available for heavy loads and or driving needs.
8. SNOB APPEAL and sophisticated drivers- a manual transmission expert driver typically looks down their nose at others WHO can NOT properly exploit a manual proper transmission. These are discerning connoisseurs of automotive experience that can wax euphorically over the enjoyment of the involved driving experience. Robert E Hunt III the 4th Duke of Edinburgh! Shaken not stirred 007. I've even heard stories by Manual ONLY Snobs stating “ My father and grandfather would ONLY allow our family when we were 16 to get a DRIVERS LICENSE ONLY if and ONLY if we learned and could properly drive a Manual Transmission. No automatics allowed. This is all MACHO Bullshit and nonsense.
9. NUCLEAR WAR and Manual transmission risk. I've even read and heard where it's ABSOLUTELY VITAL that one knows how to drive a manual transmission in the event of a Global Thermonuclear War. WHY? As Robert Hunt 4th said a Nuclear Warhead sets off a massive EMP, the massive burst of an Electromagnetic Pulse radiation destroys and cripples any and all electronic components and ECUs and electric circuits. In the event of a Nuclear War and multiple EMPs , A MANUAL TRANSMISSION driver can go to a farm and drive a manual transmission tractor to escape and live underground. NOTE to SELF - someone section 302 Mr. HUNT.
10. Manual transmission collectibility and appreciation- YES for certain given the global Phase out of manual transmissions in the modern era sportscar and cars with manual transmissions are often worth significantly more that an automatic and DCT/PDK car.

Automatic transmissions were the majority transmission of choice in the United States and certain parts of the world. In the late 1980s and early 1990s FERRARI SPA Italy started development of the F1 transmission for Formula 1 and released the F1 transmission for the Ferrari 355 cars. Ferrari is the world's very 1st company to design, engineer and perfect the DUAL CLUTCH transmission system.



Like all modern engineering and technological advancements ``continual improvement” occurs and thereby the modern DCT is the world's very best manual transmission that offers internal clutches for seamless shifting that negates the 3rd Clutch pedal and pedal lever. The shifting takes place by Flappy Pedals levers attached to the cars steering wheel on the Left and Right just like true professional Formula 1 racing cars , INDY cars and modern all out racing cars.



Porsche started developing their own DCT called PDK. PDK is an acronym meaning Porsche Doppelkung getriebe >> Porsche double Clutch gearbox. Porsche has always tested and developed their DCT in their race cars like the 1988 Porsche 962 C cars. Eventually after years of continual engineering and improvement POrsche released the PDK/DCT and it has gotten better and better and is up to 7 gears. It's a revelation.



Advantages of DCT/PDK

1. much better gas mileage - 7 speeds and engine is always in gear driving the vehicle forward NEVER EVER any non engagement of clutches. Therefore no wasted energy and F= MA
2. Reliability- Morons, tough/Rough guys and Imbeciles can NOT “Grind Gears”, Burn-out clutches, “can you smell the clutch burning' ', ruin synchros, and have miss shifts- with modern dct its idiot proofed.
3. Engine destruction- manual HARD OVER REV- valves HIT piston is 100% impossible on a DCT/PDK versus all manual transmissions. Multiple morons racing and shifting fast for 5th gear Top-Right miss and get 3rd Gear middle TOP and RESULT BOOM massive overrev event and engine immediate destruction and very very expensive Rebuild. This 100% can NEVER EVER occur with a computerized DCT/PDK because the computer will NOT allow a shift like this based on an algorithm.
4. Speed on the racetrack- modern DCT/PDK offer massive benefits to acceleration on the street, dragstrip for Launch Control and on Road Courses where DCT/PDK is the ONLY way to go as fast as possible. Professionals only want to race modern race cars with PDK/DCT under all circumstances. Vintage cars sure a manual is fine BUT if you are racing and SPEED is the criteria you want DCT/PDK.
5. Maintenance simply changes the transmission fluids on DCT/PDK- never ever any clutch adjustments or replacements as a manual transmission cars. Clutch levers shifting rods don't require adjustment or lubrication either as a DCT/PDK doesn't have any bean stalks or levers
6. DCT/PDK offers 100% full manual transmission shifting WHEN you go into manual mode. Same exact experience as a manual transmission. Simply either go into manual mode and or oil a steering wheel shift lever in AUTO mode car shifts into 100% manual mode and the DRiver gets the very best dual functionality.
7. Launch Control- creates the very fastest acceleration ONLY a DCT/PDK can give you the results. No manual can ever compete. Anyone who claims otherwise is an Idiot.
8. Warranty exposure - OEM , original equipment manufacturers , strongly prefer DCT/PDK because the driver can NOT harm the gearbox or engine from being a sloppy poor driver or by sheer ignorance and negligence. This is why most European and American sports car manufacturers have abandoned the manual transmission en masse.
9. One transmission Global sourcing- OEM car manufacturers prefer DCT/PDK so they ONLY have to offer 1 transmissions for their manufacturing engineering teams. Sourcing a DCT/PDK one size fits all adds to profitability and better efficiencies.
10. Anyone can drive a DCT/PDK- if you drink too much and or feel sick and can not drive home a DCT/PDK can be driven by anyone safely to get the car home and the driver home versus a manual that requires skills.
11. Clutch kick you can also do this with a PDK/DCT.
12. Traffic jams city congestion- in automatic mode and DCT/PDK is always the best choice and relaxing enjoyable driving mode when one is NOT moving versus constantly declutching/shifting/ rolling forward a few feet and then clutch in and wait 4 minutes and do steps again for another few feet and REPEAT hundreds upon hundreds of times in a long traffic jam!

In conclusion, modern DCT/PDK gives the driver a full manual mode transmission and full automatic transmission in 1 awesome great package. The above reasons are why 98% of cars and trucks do not offer a stick or manual transmission. The Take Rates are dropping as well and many drivers accept reality and the benefits of DCT/PDK.

Www.fabspeed.com
exotic Car Performance Experts 30+ years experience !

Hope you and your families have a great weekend and 4th of July next week!

Phil1098

The problem the OP has is he is assuming the DCT is like any other automatic and it isn't in the least. I've been a three pedal guy for years, I was doing heal toe downshifts long before the electronic rev match came about. That said, the DCT in the Z06 is one of the things I like the most. I had an AMG that when you pulled on a paddle, there was a noticeable delay before it shifted. That was a horrible experience and after about two shifts, never manual shifted the car again. The DCT in the Z06 feels like you are actually doing something because when you call for a shift it happens instantaneously. The biggest misunderstanding is the physics of what's happening. The C8 takes full advantage of where the weight is, huge tires, and super low gearing to get unheard of acceleration numbers. The final drive in a Z06 is 5.56:1 and driving normally, it will shift into second in the length of the car. When you hammer it from a stop, you COULDN'T physically or mentally keep up, it's WHY it will always be a DCT. The DCT has shifted into the next gear before it's needed. The programming of this is also beyond brilliant. If you leave it in auto mode, it still shifts like it was plugged into your brain. I use Zmode and have the engine/transmission in sport. The other day I was taking a long looping ramp getting onto the interstate, at something more than the posted speed, but with zero acceleration occurring. So at a constant speed the car sensed the higher than normal G load and the DCT downshifted two gears "figuring" that I wanted to play and get it on. This is NO automatic you've ever experienced, if anyone wants to post without ever owning one, they don't know or understand.

dvilin

All you have to do is drive a C8 and you will remove your name from the list. Playing with the paddles is nothing like a real manual transmission in any way. I was on the list for a C8Z and no way after test driving one would I give up my 2019 M7 Z06. People on this forum who spend 100k for a new Z are not going to tell you they made a mistake all you will here is how great the dct is and blah. It is NOT.

CaryBob

I had several manual Corvettes over more than thirty years, from C2 through a C7 Z06 and got used to paddle shifting in about an hour with the Stingray and now the C8 Z06. The DCT is fantastic for touring and paddle shifting is just as much fun when you want a more thrilling experience. There is less physical movement of arms and legs, sure, but the shifting itself is so much quicker and the car more responsive. Keep in mind that you would have to shift a lot more often in the C8 to take advantage of the gearing. If you are not really into exercising the engine so much, you can just enjoy manually selecting gears with the paddles.

Bluehinder

I dealt with it by keeping a 718 GT4 next to it in the garage with MT.

camelhead

Great stuff Man, can almost smell that tire smoke!