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In isolation, the MT comparo of the C8Z51 vs the 992 series 911 Carrera S is certainly noteworthy. A pre-production 3LT Z51 with FE4 and nose lift a car that can be had for <80K nips an all-new, 130K+ 911 in a head to head. The C8 pipped the 911 in straight line acceleration, while the 911 held an advantage on the figure 8 and road course that is likely neutralized early in the Stingray life cycle via suspension and brake system tuning. In other key areas namely ride quality and interior the C8 won more decisively. Thats a big story.
But its not THE story, and certainly not what scares Porsche. The real takeaway is what it suggests about the forthcoming C8 series vs the entire Porsche sports car range. Speculatively matching the two lineups by price point would look something like this:
60-65K: 2LT vs Cayman / Boxster
75-80K: 3LT Z51 vs Cayman S / Boxster S
100-110K: GS >600hp NA FPC vs Carrera
115-130K: Z06 >700hp TT FPC vs Carrera S
160-175K: ZR1/Zora >850hp TT FPC hybrid vs GT3
I know this is speculative in terms of C8 pricing and performance, but its probably close enough for this analysis. If this comes to pass, it would be a clean sweep up through the top-shelf C8 price point. Scarier still for Stuttgart? It might still be a sweep if we compared the GS described above to the next GT3RS, the next Z06 to the next Turbo S, and the next ZR1/Zora to the next GT2RS. And its not just about performance and/or bang for the buck, but rather overall desirability, regardless of price. I mean, just look at the C8.R and imagine that FPC V8 uncorked in the road car. One CHEVROLET model range being more desirable (perhaps significantly so), to a majority of people, than its Porsche price-point counterpart across both the 718 and 992 ranges? That spells severe Porsche sports car market share loss. Cant wait to see if Porsche can respond effectively. Might be tough without introducing a distinctly sexier new mid-engine model range that strains the relevancy of both the 718 and 992. What a time to be a sports car fan in general, and C8 fan in particular.
There is a large contingent of Pcar buyers who will never cross shop a Vette. Its all about exclusivity. Its like all the SoCal super mommies who scream about plastic straws and then jump in their Range Rovers to go to Yoga, it doesn't have to make any sense at all.
There is a large contingent of Pcar buyers who will never cross shop a Vette. Its all about exclusivity. Its like all the SoCal super mommies who scream about plastic straws and then jump in their Range Rovers to go to Yoga, it doesn't have to make any sense at all.
I own a C7 Corvette and a Ferrari..... it's great fun to walk into the garage and say, "Do I drive the fun car? Or do I drive the fun car?" I pretty much split the DD duties.....
I own a C7 Corvette and a Ferrari..... it's great fun to walk into the garage and say, "Do I drive the fun car? Or do I drive the fun car?" I pretty much split the DD duties.....
Thats livin brother. My choice is V12 Vantage manual or M3 CS. Cant decide which goes to make room for the C8.
Cayman/Boxster marketshare has serious C8 problems, maybe terminal. Porsche always hobbled it in favor of maintaining the 911 brand as bread and butter. It coulda made 911 ME move in 1998, just like how we are seeing vette ME move now, but chose to play cute with a two car strategy (more $$). That move is gonna cost them. Perhaps rightly so.
911 pricing is only going higher because tech R/D is expensive dealing with an inferior design. So it will continue innovating tech like rear wheel steer, dynamic engine mounts, etc... to keep a 911 RE competitive. There will always be a market for "unique" well executed designs. 911 will only become more expensive and thus more exclusive, not a great place to be considering Porsche is a relatively high volume player. Per price point 911 has always been the practical sports car, 2+2. With escalating pricing and waning performance vs comp., that becomes an increasingly tougher sell.
Omg these threads!!!! Yeah every Porsche buyer now wants to buy a mass produced 60K American car! Ive owned 4 vettes. Great cars. Had 2 c7zs one with 740whp. It isnt even in the same atmosphere as my GT3 RS. These threads are hilarious 😂
There is a large contingent of Pcar buyers who will never cross shop a Vette. Its all about exclusivity. Its like all the SoCal super mommies who scream about plastic straws and then jump in their Range Rovers to go to Yoga, it doesn't have to make any sense at all.
I sold my Beautiful Porsche 911 Carrera Cab to buy the C8 I have had 8 Corvettes, Vipers, The C8 hands down is my favorite, GM has done a great job, especially on the interior. Proud to drive a C8.
Corvette C8 does not have exclusivity and they dont have a 6 speed manual...
So Porsche will be fine remember they still make a manual transmission in the 992 911 and in all their 718 models some are exclusive in manual transmissions like the 718 GT4 and 718 Spyder!
Plus their PDK dual clutch is the best in the business!
Chevy is going to sell a lot of corvettes but they will never have exclusivity, not even with the C8 ZR1 but at least now we can almost totally customize a C8 to our liking...almost as good as you can do on any Porsche!
Chevy will be fine....Porsche will be fine but Porsche does need to put the 3.0 liter turbo flat six into the 718!
Plain and simple, the C8, and Corvettes in general are are a very high performance, LOWER COST American car. You people who think it's some kind of giant killer that is going to negatively impact Porsche sales, are smoking crack. They are, for the most part, two very separate markets. Corvette owners are much more price sensitive than Porsche owners. There are endless posts about 1/4 mile times for the vette, yet very few about the Porsches. Vettes are an American icon, Porsches are a global one.
I drove AMG' and Porsches and admired them a great deal, but they weren't for me. I drove C7's and I wasn't impressed with the gameboy dash or exterior looks. We bought a C6 GS when we could have afforded are were prepared to spend 3x that amount because we LIKED the C6.
Honestly, some of these posts by neophyte C8 posters are quite bothersome. Far too much emphasis on "how fast" and that mentality on the streets can kill you and others. We drive and enjoy, not to find others to race.
I own a C7 Corvette and a Ferrari..... it's great fun to walk into the garage and say, "Do I drive the fun car? Or do I drive the fun car?" I pretty much split the DD duties.....
Bravo, Sir! You need a supercharged Lotus Elise or Exige.....Try 1900lbs with 300HP and it is the third-rail of fun....
Omg these threads!!!! Yeah every Porsche buyer now wants to buy a mass produced 60K American car! Ive owned 4 vettes. Great cars. Had 2 c7zs one with 740whp. It isnt even in the same atmosphere as my GT3 RS. These threads are hilarious 😂
Sadly, I agree. The thing that Porsche "gets" is that they make cars that give you performance AND the experience. Example. Camaro ZL1-1LE has the performance. The GT350R is the experience. Not as fast but visceral!! I've drive GT3s and they are the closest thing to my Lotus Race car(high 300s HP and only 1750lbs). I love the vette and challenge them to make a car that is the "experience" Flat-Plane crank is a big step in that direction. Lose a bit of weight would be the other.....
It has been this way for numerous generations, this is nothing new. The C7 offered more performance at a cheaper cost. The same articles came out when the C7 debuted and everyone raved about the interior, styling, performance, etc. and put it head to head with more expensive Porsche products.
It's still a Chevy at the end of the day. Will some Porsche owners convert? Sure. Will Porsche become irrelevant because of the C8? No. The whole industry is losing sales, but Porsche seems to a profit machine. After all they have SUV/CUV's to fallback on and carry the brand.
I have never driven a Porsche. I have owned several Vettes and logged about 500k miles in them. I dont get the constant comparisons between them. To me they are nothing alike.
One day I may own a Porsche. They are amazing cars. To me completely different from the Corvette.
Hell I bought a new Miata Club to wait for the C8 to roll out. Most here would hate it but its the most fun I have had driving in a long time. I can actually drive the thing to its limits daily and not go to jail. And I am doing it for 28 grand.
There is simply no way to quantify the effect of the C8 on Porsche sales. To do so you would have to know how many C8s were purchased by people who absolutely would have purchased a Porsche were the C8 not available and this is unknowable, even by the purchasers themselves. That said, the C8 is a strong new competitor and it's hard to see how it would not be taking any business from Porsche. Best case for Porsche is that the C8 has no effect on their sales at all, unlikely in my opinion.
I have never driven a Porsche. I have owned several Vettes and logged about 500k miles in them. I dont get the constant comparisons between them. To me they are nothing alike.
One day I may own a Porsche. They are amazing cars. To me completely different from the Corvette.
Hell I bought a new Miata Club to wait for the C8 to roll out. Most here would hate it but its the most fun I have had driving in a long time. I can actually drive the thing to its limits daily and not go to jail. And I am doing it for 28 grand.
Ha same here. Sold the Vette now own an ND Miata Club and a 19 Jeep Wrangler (I like to offroad and it hauls the kids).
I am definitely finding the old adage it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow to be true...
There is simply no way to quantify the effect of the C8 on Porsche sales. To do so you would have to know how many C8s were purchased by people who absolutely would have purchased a Porsche were the C8 not available and this is unknowable, even by the purchasers themselves. That said, the C8 is a strong new competitor and it's hard to see how it would not be taking any business from Porsche. Best case for Porsche is that the C8 has no effect on their sales at all, unlikely in my opinion.
Keep in mind the Corvette no longer offers a manual transmission and roughly 25% of C7 owners bought a manual. We don't know how many of those previous Corvette owners may buy a Porsche to continue to have the manual experience either. Porsche doesn't sell that many 911's or Cayman's, or Boxsters, compared to Corvette. Corvette is all about the volume.
10-17-2019, 12:38 AM
Porsche has a serious Corvette problem
