When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I saw this here on the forum (or followed their link as they are the ones building the Targa Brace now that Tom G has retired) and decided that Mild To Wild's Spare Tire Delete Bracket was exactly what I was looking for. Ever since I found out that the actual spare tire/assembly did double duty in case of a rear end collision, I have been wanting to put something back there. We all know that factory STDBs are made of AlmostUnObtanium and rarely surface. I had saved some thin wall square steel tubing to make something, however now it can go to the scrap man.
I called the folks at MTW and found them to be polite, helpful, tolerant of my next to none patience (I worked in IT for 28 years and grew to expect instant feedback, because that is what I received from the machines, so it warped me a bit, or so my wife says). They told me to wait, that they were coming out with a modification, ie: brackets to attach a transmission cooler to.
So now its the Night Before Christmas/The Day Before My Birthday, and the brace is sitting at a UPS facility, yep you probably didn't guess it, very close to Tom Gaspar's shop, here in Ohio, for delivery tomorrow.
Over the next week or two, I will document and review for you all, the product and the installation. I chose not to get the transmission cooling fan at this time, as I need to buy a set of injectors, head gaskets (and other sundry gaskets) and have spent a bunch of money as my wife told me to get the car done, now that I am getting healthy again.
I chose to eventually go the transmission cooler route as in the past, I worked on fixing one of the overheating Duramax LLY trucks. Part of the solution was a better transmission cooler. We went from a truck that would get hot pulling a 8000 lb trailer on flat ground at 57 mph (going to 62 increased the airflow and dropped the temps) and having to blast the heater for 100 miles going up Fancy Gap in W.Va and the mountains on a mid 90's day, to being able to pull Fancy Gap at 55/60 mph with our new 10,000lb trailer loaded (passing Fords and Dodges) with no heat issues. I learned a bit about cooling fixing it. (we missed being in the class action suit as I was once again having orthopedic issues, my bane in life).
So here is the start of the review. I hinted about it in the Wet Noodle thread, and didn't want that one to veer too far off course, so I decided to go ahead and start before I actually have the product in hand
I swiped the first picture off their website so all credit to them for the photography. Jordan at MTW provided me a picture of what the cooler/fan looks like on the brace/bracket. They will be able to supply these also.
We sometimes go into the twisty hilly areas of Southern Ohio for a blast on hot sunny days. Back when we bought the car, we wanted a 6-speed, but due to a childhood injury to my right hand, some days I am unable to shift over and over. So pragmatism said an automatic. The twists, turns and switchbacks of the foothills, beginning of the mountains in W. Virginia (and to the east of us) can generate heat in an auto (you all know that, preaching to the choir here). I have all the hard parts to build a Sonnax Level 3 transmission to go behind the engine mods that are getting started in 2 weeks.
I will document for you the unboxing, what I think of the craftsmanship, ease of installation (the Exotic Muscle harness bar was a pain in the a** to install, their weld jig must have slipped and I had to have a hole welded up and redrilled to be able to install it, cost less to fix than to ship it back) and just over all feelings about it.
I have a hunch that it might offer some stiffness to the chassis, along with the other mods I have done (harness bar to tie/triangulate the rear hoop into the frame, front camber brace) at this time and planned (convertible x-brace sitting in the garage) (if that doesn't work as good, then maybe I will get the vette-to-vette bars). I will let you know.
Man, I really hope my comments don't come across as bashing this product. However, I followed M2W postings about this brace when they were on the final stages of development before release, and I have to say, their narrative is confusing at best...deceiving at worst. I'm specifically referring to this:
Unmatched Structural Rigidity: When it comes to vehicle stability, structural rigidity is key. Our Tire Delete Brace is engineered with precision to provide your vehicle with the best rigidity possible. This means increased stability, reduced chassis flex, and enhanced handling, even in the most demanding driving conditions.
There is a post here where they announced this product and a member specifically asked them if this brace would add rigidity to the chassis. The M2W rep was relatively clear in that rigidity was not the purpose for this brace. Rather, it was about replacing the spare and adding a cooler, as depicted in the pictures. By their own admission, rigidity improvements would be minimal at best, since the brace mounts aft of the rear tires. All the chassis flex issues happen in between the front and rear tires, for the most part.
Having said that, I look forward to your input, Dr Cook.
Man, I really hope my comments don't come across as bashing this product. However, I followed M2W postings about this brace when they were on the final stages of development before release, and I have to say, their narrative is confusing at best...deceiving at worst. I'm specifically referring to this:
There is a post here where they announced this product and a member specifically asked them if this brace would add rigidity to the chassis. The M2W rep was relatively clear in that rigidity was not the purpose for this brace. Rather, it was about replacing the spare and adding a cooler, as depicted in the pictures. By their own admission, rigidity improvements would be minimal at best, since the brace mounts aft of the rear tires. All the chassis flex issues happen in between the front and rear tires, for the most part.
Having said that, I look forward to your input, Dr Cook.
Ric
drcook is actually my name (DR = David R, but thanks for the compliment) I have tried to look for a way to specify that on my posts and haven't figured it out on THIS forum yet. Other forums I belong to yes, this one, no. Most folks just call me Dave.
My thoughts are that it could aid in subduing some of the twisting. If you roll back through time and go to that thread where Tom was analyzing the structure of his cart, he found out that there was noticeable twisting going on. I am hoping that this will help tie the frame components together a bit (in conjunction with my other additions). Every little bit helps as well as provide the added support in case of a rear end collision.
I realize (as does everyone else) that the VetteToVette bars, the convertible x-brace, the front camber brace, my putting in the harness brace and the targa brace are all band-aids meant to overcome a decision by an idiot with no mechanical sense at all to delete the T-tops.
I could immediately tell the difference the camber brace and harness brace made. If you think about it, the camber brace is in front of the front wheels.
It'w worth it to me to get a percentage of improvement as a side benefit.
The harness brace is attached to the bolts that held the targa top retaining brackets behind the back seats and at the upper seat belt anchor bolts. I used a high grade version of JB Weld with metal dust in in to go around the bolts (of course I waxed them so it wouldn't stick). It formed a tight interface around the bolts so it can't move, triangulating the hoop to the frame.
I lost access to the compartments behind the seat (for the most part) a small price to pay, without having to remove the bar.
I have the pin top shock bushings that Banksi sold when Tom (Bankski owner) was still in business. They allow the shocks to actually work, instead of the bushings then the shocks.
As an aside, I saved all the Banski installation documents, if I could get a sticky, I would upload them for folks.
I fetched this back from the Way Back Machine (shades of Mr Peabody and Herman) as his site is gone
At the time we purchased this car, we couldn't afford a 12,000 mile C5 and I had a paid off 2007 Ranger that needed to go away, which I got $10,000 for towards our car. SO I have set out to build the best car that I can.
I saved the bars from a pasture fence from when we had horses and a tree kinda fell on the gate. The bars are galvanized steel, much in the same shape as the convertible x-braces are. When I put in the x-brace, I am going to fabricate some lengthwise bars that can be attached after installation, to box the frame like the Vette-to-Vette bars do. They won't be under compression obviously, but will help.
I know all this adds weight, however I have the parts for an engine build, that as I said, now that I am healthy, I am going to finish the car.
The one thing that I would like all of you to do for me is go in the back yard and burn some chicken bones for me. We have the heart issue fixed (caught it before I had a heart attack) I can deal with orthopedic issues, but what most keeps me on edge the most is we discovered (well I did because I was reviewing my medical records and noticed data patterns due to what I did for a living) that I was subsequently diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia. Right now is at a very very slow stage, I don't require any treatment, but I do have to get blood work multiple times a year and see an oncologist/blood doctor once a year, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CHANGE. If it stays the way it is, I will leave as long as I should, I just get tired somewhat. This is what has delayed me working on the car the last few years. I have also started on a new med that has a side effect of killing cancer (it was discovered). So any positive thoughts you all send my way will surely help.
drcook is actually my name (DR = David R, but thanks for the compliment) I have tried to look for a way to specify that on my posts and haven't figured it out on THIS forum yet. Other forums I belong to yes, this one, no. Most folks just call me Dave
Dave, nice to meet you formally. My screen name is also my name...Ricardo...and that other part is my last name. Most people bypass rolling the "R", and simply call me Rick/Ric
My thoughts are that it could aid in subduing some of the twisting. If you roll back through time and go to that thread where Tom was analyzing the structure of his cart, he found out that there was noticeable twisting going on. I am hoping that this will help tie the frame components together a bit (in conjunction with my other additions). Every little bit helps as well as provide the added support in case of a rear end collision.
Oh yeah...I've seen Tom's video. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised the C4 doesn't suffer from cracks in the chassis due to metal fatigue from all the flexing. It's scary.
I do remember Tom stating something about a "hinge like movement at the S bend on the chassis", or behind the seats.
On the camber brace....I have no experience with it and no data to speak intelligently about. However, at first glance, it would appear that area is much more vulnerable than the rear area where the spare brace is located. It seems to me the camber brace is locate in a place where it may have a sizable impact.
That is not to say the spare brace doesn't reinforce the chassis...I'm sure it does. To me, however, it is in a place where it doesn't have much of an impact.
As for the harness brace, I'm looking into this and studying. From your description, it seems like more than just a simple bolt on. So far, my target for reducing some of the flex is the camber brace.
As far as your health goes, please stay on top of it and pause your build as many times as you need to. Thoughts and prayers are with you! Hell, I wish I was closer...I'd help you out with the swap.
The R part of drc is Richard. I can roll the R'ss, read my PM to you.
If their weld jig (Exotic Muscle) hadn't slipped it would have been a bolt in. (or my car has a bit of deviation from the car they used as a model) Even though I had to tweak it, I am MORE than pleased that I did. My wife made the pad for it. It's zippered. JoAnn Fabric carries upholstery grade vinyl.
From the way I see it, 10% here, 15% there, add in a few from from the spare tire delete all adds up. I know the SPD is not intended for bracing, I am just hoping that as an added benefit that it will.
Prior to writing software for Fortune 500 companies, I was employed in the precision machining industry and had lots of exposure to lots of different industries and know about bending and vibration as we/I had to learn how to overcome such to machine very close tolerance parts. Vibration and bending/deflection is the enemy !! Any way to eliminate even a small amount is beneficial.
The fatory delete brace was said to be 9lbs. This M2W doesnt list the weight on their website, just that it will reduce weight. Anyone know how much the space tire, spare tire carrier, brackets and bolt, jack, and jack handle all weight put together??? Thats of course with 50 psi of air in the tire, i believe its drastically different when flat.
According to one Youtube video, the spare tire, carrier and hardware, the jack and lug wrench all weigh 43lbs put together. The M2W is steel and most likely weighs over 9lbs. So not a really significant weight reduction but looks like it could be a good jacking point for the rear.
Are you saying that half a pound is negligible (sure) or that the air can't weigh half a pound?
The whole idea of including the weight of the air in a tire is absurd. This was a joke. But, can air weigh a half pund? Youbet your *** it can, in fact the column of air that is above me right now weighs 15lbs.
According to out bathroom scale, which is NOT CERTIFIED of course, it weighs 15.6 lbs. To me there will be a weight savings on close trips, however on long trips, none, as we are building a bracket to stabilize a full size spare behind the back seats. We don't want the tire to come flying at us if we are in an accident, so I am going to fab up a brace to attach it to the harness brace so that it can't come forward. The farthest we have gone so far with the car is Carlisle which is over 300 miles, pretty much all 60/70 mph from our house to the exit there. We hit the highway 2 stops signs away. I would rather drive that far on a full size tire if need be. Close to home I carry a can of fix a flat and a small air compressor.
I am more concerned for the structure it replaces, than the weight.
Yesterday, 08:30 AM
Mild To Wild Spare Tire Delete Bracket
